Wait Liljenquist? Isn’t he a Mormon? Aren’t there a bunch of FR posters running around spamming threads with anti-Mormon junk claiming that being a Mormon alone makes one a liberal. That Mormons are “progressive” because of their faith? Isn’t Liljenquist a Tea Party conservative and a Mormon? How could this be?
Agree, but be careful. Your time here could be limited. You don’t want to get run over by the passive-aggressive bus.
These old times need to find out they are REPLACEABLE, you get in your 80’s its time to rest and retire...
sure hope Tea Party begins to get renewed and we wake up the GOVERNENT. I'm tired of being told what to do by the GOP..they will soon be history.
I don't know. Maybe you can find some of those FR posters on this thread and ask them. Surely you don't mean for taildragger to answer for others, do you?
If you don't see any of the FR posters on this thread to whom you're referring, maybe ping them here so they see your questions.
Otherwise, you look like someone who enjoys going around kicking rhetorical anthills just for the helluvit.
It’s long memories like yours that lead to tea parties.
Hatch is a mormon and there have been zero anti-mormon threads.
There have been many threads exposing mormonISM.
These mormon politicians are who they are because of their mormonISM not in spite of it.
Thanks for the introduction of the mormon religion to this thread. We'll be happy to provide more fodder for your whines.
That's 'anti-MormonISM' junk facts...
... claiming that being a Mormon alone makes one a liberal.
Well; we are STILL waiting for a MORMON on the National scene that ISN'T a LIBERAL to be produced.
Do YOU have one for us?
Politics makes strange bedfellows.
If somebody had told me two years ago that I'd be trying to talk people into voting for Newt Gingrich despite his past history, and now being backed by a casino mogul, I'd have said they're crazy. Two months ago I was supporting Rick Santorum despite some significant concerns. Now, however, Gingrich is now the last conservative left standing. The alternative to him is worse.
I don't have a big problem with voting for a politically conservative Mormon, though I would want to ask some important questions first to a Mormon candidate before voting for him. I'd have similar concerns about any candidate who is a member of a cult group, though I could imagine voting for such a candidate if there is no good alternative or if the candidate is really good politically despite problematic religious views, so long as I'm satisfied his religious views don't make him unacceptable on key Christian conservative political issues such as abortion and homosexual marriage.
In any event, trying to run Sen. Hatch out of Utah is not a political risk to the Republican Party since whoever wins the Republican nomination is going to win Utah anyway. I think it's a win-win — if Hatch wins, the seat stays Republican and hopefully he'll realize he needs to be more attentive to his conservative constituents; if he loses, the seat gets held by a considerably more conservative candidate since the Democratic Party has virtually no chance in Utah.
You can still be conservative and be in the wrong religion. No law against that. We’ll make more of a point about you being in the wrong religion if you’re NOT a conservative. Especially if you tell us you are but really aren’t.
that would be the Moromnophobes
AKA Christian Taliban
Make Newt a part of your daily breakfast. Newt, for Conservatism, for when milqtoast just won't cut it.
You exposed your hidden agenda. It is YOU who introduced the religion of Hatch into this thread. It is plain you want to get more argument going so you can degrade the osters and Freerepublic. You jerk, you’re the one trying to start something. You’ve remained stealthy, up until lately. Outed yourself this time ...
No.
I have plenty of Mormon relatives who are conservative.
Maybe you can find some of those FR posters on this thread and ask them. Surely you don't mean for taildragger to answer for others, do you? If you don't see any of the FR posters on this thread to whom you're referring, maybe ping them here so they see your questions. Otherwise, you look like someone who enjoys going around kicking rhetorical anthills just for the helluvit. [Lonevoice, post #37]
So...Lonevoice is right...show us which postings you're referencing...'cause otherwise -- if you can't -- then that would show you love putting words in other posters' mouths...
Being Mormon doesn't make somebody automatically an all-out liberal or a liberal issue-in, issue-out, or whatever label you wish to pin...
What it does tend to make in the socio-political & religious realm is one of two things...
...(a) a legalist...
...Or (b), for those Mormons wanting to move away from at least its perceived legalism as lived out before society, its tends to breed a wishy-washy waffleism in wich their foundations are quickly reduced to quicksand for reasons of convenient expediency.
I don't know Romney's spirituality as applied to (a) -- how he lives his relationship with God...that's for God to know...[I certainly, though, can quote you chapter & verse on the legalism of Mormon leadership and MormonISM...]
As for (b), Romney has a long track record...and so does the Mormon church.
If people want to understand how Mormonism's approach to the socio-political realm at the local level, people need to read these two articles (the first written by a Mormon; the second by an ex-Mormon):
* Mitt Romney mirrors his Mormon church [Lds writer says Romney flip-flops 'cause Lds church has/does]
* Who is Mitt Romney? [Ex-Lds author reveals why Mitt's wishy-washy culture waffles & flip-flops]
In the first linked article above, Mormon Neal Chandler highlights how in the 19th century...
* Mormons forced communism upon its people -- and then not (United Order)
* Adhered to theocracies under its first two "prophets" -- and then slowly drew back
* Said polygamy was a condition of the highest degree of glory -- and then not
* Encourage its Utah Territory voters to be Democrats -- and then told whole groups of people wholesale to "balance it out" as Republicans as statehood approached
* Excluded blacks -- and then late in the 20th century not
From the second article linked above: What makes Mitt the kind of person he is — ruthlessly opportunistic, dishonest, insincere, willing to say anything for advantage, lacking in conscience, preoccupied with appearance, etc., on the one hand, yet squeaky clean, family-oriented, disciplined, boring, and predictable, on the other? My new e-book, A Mormon Story, sheds light on the culture that produced Mitt Romney.
Good question. (It's one I've raised -- and answered numerous times on various FR threads)
The answer, says this ex-Mormon in the book referenced above is: (From the article): The book reveals a value system that ultimately has no absolutes, other than the need to conform to deep-seated, highly-controlling authoritarianism that pervades LDS culture. That culture emphasizes a Mormon tradition known as "eternal progression" — undoctrinal spiritual evolution in which even God is changing. It also emphasizes the notion that the latest words of governing church leaders trump the Word of God found in the scriptures (including LDS scripture).
IOW, EVERYTHING in Mormonism -- from its theology to its social practices -- is up for potential change at the whim of the Mormon god. Bottom-line: There is no bottom-line in Mormonism! There is no bedrock doctrine that cannot be replaced! a wishy-washy
Time to review just a few "hints & clues" -- coupled with what I said in my last post...
How has Romney's Mormonism effected his governing in Bay State & His campaign statements?
| GOV. Romney | Mormon 'scripture' & History | Sources | Quotes |
| ObamaCare based upon RomneyCare [SoConPubbie has posted some threads the week of April 16, 2012 along these lines]. In addition, what about Romney's $50 taxpayer-subsidized abortions -- and some $0 abortions -- he permanently imposed a Planned Parenthood rep into supervision of RomneyCare? (Since he vetoed other portions of that legislation, the Planned Parenthood rep section was also something he could have vetoed). For all of the pro-abortion damage done by Romney in the Bay State, see: RomneyCare Now Funding FREE Abortions: A Disqualifier for Mitt Romney’s Candidacy [Enabler Mitt] | Mitt's Mormonism embraced socialism/communism under the 'United Order' – sacred commands still on the Mormon “scriptures” – depicted to be “everlasting” commandments of the Mormon god | The Mormon socialistic/communistic “everlasting” nature of the “United Order” depicted in Lds “scriptures” – Doctrine & Covenants 82:18-19 and 104:1, 48, 53. | Even Lds author George Givens described Brigham Young’s communist-built community of Orderville, Utah as “pure communism”: "When Brigham Young established Orderville and similar United Orders, John Taylor was less than enthusiastic. He realized that enterprises such as Orderville were pure communism and not the law of consecration. He made this plain after he became President, when in 1882 he sent an epistle to all authorities of the Church in which he bluntly stated: 'We had no example of the 'United Order' in accordance with the word of God on the subject...Our relations with the world and our own imperfections prevent the establishment of this system [i.e. the system of consecration and stewardship spoken of at times as the 'United Order'] at the present time, as was stated by Joseph in an early day, it cannot yet be carried out.'" (George W. Givens, 500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, 2004, p. 169)"One of the most famous utopian books ever written was Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy, published in 1889. Some scholars believe Looking Backward had considerable influence in the making of Lenin's Soviet Russia. If this is true, then [ensuing Lds "prophet"] Lorenzo Snow and the Latter-day Saints must receive some of the credit--or blame. Hearing of the success of the United Order in Brigham City, Edward Bellamy made a special trip to Utah in 1886 to study its operation. There he spent three days with Lorenzo Snow, Brigham City's founder and forty-year resident. Impressed with the thirty to forty industries run by its 2,000 inhabitants and the vitality at that time of one of the most successful United Orders, Bellamy returned home and wrote his influential book." (500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, p. 185). Way to go, 19th century Mormon leader-“prophets” of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor & Lorenzo Snow!!! They all unwittingly fueled Soviet Communism! |
| Mitt Romney is incredibly soft on illegal aliens | Recent Lds history: 2 LDS branch presidents in Utah deported to Guatemala, El Salvador | 10 reasons Christians should reject Romney | “In 2006 Gov. Romney supported the president’s immigration policy as well as the McCain-Kennedy bill. He expressed support for an immigration program that places large numbers of illegal residents on the path toward citizenship. …” [without requiring they return home and wait their turn, allowing them to cut in line before law-abiding immigrants] Never mind that Romney hired (then fired) illegal aliens to landscape his yard. If Romney supports unlimited amnesty without any rule of law, how will he stand on national security? |
| Gov. Romney pro-civil unions for same-sex couples 2002-2005 (before he turned against it) and he is still in favor of taxpayer-funded domestic partnership benefits for sexual minorities. He says he supports 'Partnership agreements'. Also, Gov. Romney sucked up to the Bay State Gay Log Cabin...saying he would give the GLBT youth funding a greater spotlight at the fed level to emulate…he was endorsed twice by the Log Cabin Club of MA; he said in 1994 and reiterated in 2007 that he was in favor of forcing businesses to hire alternative sexual minorities (in ’94 he wanted feds to do it; now he wants the states to do it...his third position on that issue). | Recent Lds history: Homosexual rights: Mormon church supports Salt Lake City's protections for gay rights and Mormons Back Salt Lake City Gay Rights Laws | 10 reasons Christians should reject Romney and “Mitt Romney’s deception, His Stealth Promotion of ”Gay Rights” and “Gay Marriage” in Massachusetts,” book by Amy Contrada | Per Amy Contrada’s book, “Mitt Romney’s deception, His Stealth Promotion of ”Gay Rights” and “Gay Marriage” in Massachusetts,” Gov. Romney, from 2003-2006: worked closely with homosexual activists and pro-gay rights advisers; implemented “gay marriage” through his executive departments without legislative authorization, violating the Massachusetts Constitution; pushed a constitutional amendment strategy doomed to failure, and ignored the call to remove the activist judges who ruled for “gay marriage”; funded and promoted GLBT indoctrination in the public schools through his “Governor’s Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth,” and his Department of Education “Safe Schools” programs; undermined religious freedom, failing to defend Catholic Charities in the “homosexual adoptions” fiasco; continued or implemented radical homosexual and transgender programs in his executive departments. |
| Most years of Romney's “record” which he has talked about abortion, 1994, 2002, 2003, 2004 -- he has used his candidate and gubernatorial “bully pulpit” to encourage female citizens, readers & listeners to be “pro-choice” about the baby inside of them. (For those who try to claim he’s "changed," he’s equivocated in 2007 numerous times about what his pre-2007 stance was…saying in January of '07 he’s “always been for life” and saying in August '07 that he never called himself “pro-choice,” never allowed himself to feel or call himself pro-choice, and that he was “never pro-choice.” By December of 2007, he was telling Katie Couric in an interview that it was “OK” for parents to “donate” their otherwise adoptable embryos to “research”...my, “how pro-life” of him...Should all parents consider such “donations” – regardless of the age of their offspring? Why not, Mitt? And click on the first link in the "sources" column to the right to see the true abortion "legacy" of Romney, especially the year 2006 | For the official Mormon church position on abortion, see http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_abor.htm. Apparently, it's "OK" for an abortion if... (a) Incest needs to be covered up; (b) The baby is disabled and needs to be destroyed accordingly; (c) Mom's "health" (whatever that means...distinct from saying "life" of the mother); (d) If the abortionist says it's "OK"; (e) If the Mormon god says it's "OK" in prayer...E alone above could "justify" abortion to individual Mormons as long it overrides the person's conscience! |
RomneyCare Now Funding FREE Abortions: A Disqualifier for Mitt Romney’s Candidacy [Enabler Mitt]; See also: GOP frontrunner Romney shirks pro-life pledge: Bachmann, Santorum criticize; Ann Romney Reveals Mitt's Softer Side (see quote next column); Candidates Reveal Their Biggest Mistakes (see quote next column) | November, 2011, Parade Magazine interview: In the past you’ve said he’s changed positions only once, on abortion. Was that your doing? No, no, I never talked to Mitt about that. Our personal opinions have never changed; we’ve always been pro-life ( December 4, 2007: Romney: ...surplus embryos...Those embryos, I hope, could be available for adoption for people who would like to adopt embryos. But if a parent decides they would want to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable. It should not be made against the law." Any "inquiring minds" want to try wrapping their minds around how a politician in one sentence mentions "adopting" embryos out (yes, a great thing to mention!) -- but then in the very NEXT breath says if a "PARENT" wants to be "pro-choice" (Mitt used the word "decides" which is what "pro-choicers" say they want) "to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable." Say what???? How about 8-month gestationally-aged infants in the womb, Mitt? Or already-born infants, too, Mitt? If a "parent decides they would want to donate one of those...for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable..." No??? What's the 'pro-life' difference, Mitt? Here you call an embryo's mom&dad "parents" -- but "parents" w/ "research" give-away rights? How bizarre we have such schizophrenic "candidate!" |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! |
I’m LDS...and no one has accused me of being a liberal yet. But it is sad to see some of what is going on. Luckily, IMHO, it is a tinly minority of people doing it. There are good and bad in any group with over 14 million members.
From my 42 years as a member and my 56 years on this earth, I can say that amongst the faithful LDS members, the good far outweigh the bad.
As for me personally, I hope my own history of activism and actions will put the lie to any notion like that anytime anyone tries to imply it about my person, so I do not expect it any time soon.
My Web Site
http://www.jeffhead.com
America at the Crossroads of History
http://www.jeffhead.com/crossroads.htm
I’ve taken a down view of Mormonism since observing the tactics of Romney and his people. I have grown to dislike this person greatly and have begun looking at his religion as a cult on par with Scientology.
All that can change if a candidate emerges from a Mormon background that has a track record of conservatism.
Romney is a very poor representative for any group.
I blame this crew for foisting Mitt Romney on us, because the one and only consolation in voting for such a moderate-progressive country clubber is sticking it to this bigoted group.
BTW, I've lived in majority Mormon communities in SE Idaho in a previous life and found them to be great neighbors and very conservative. One of their own, Congressman George Hansen of Idaho, went to prison in order to defang the IRS just a little. Think the IRS is bad now? You should have experiencd it 30 odd years ago before Congressman Hansen held hearings.