See the Russians in the 1980’s...
We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.
Destroy EVERYTHING as we move out... heavily mine the mountain passes and then cover and let simmer.
LLS
We’re tired of not winning ANY war since 1945. And, at the current rate, we never will.
The basic problem is treating Afghanistan like a country - it is not one. Just because someone drew lines on a map doesn’t mean the people within those lines are a country. To the people of the region, family and tribe have always been more real and more important than any notion of “country”. I don’t have an easy answer; Just stating the root of the problem.
“many Americans are now asking: Why are we there? What do we have to show for our efforts? The answers are troubling:”
Afghanistan produces 90% of the World’s Opium, Heroin use is making a dramatic come back across every city in America, a simple google will easily confirm this. We have effectively maintained and protected the trade routes exclusively used for Opium Distribution from Afghanistan. Opium is there number 1 cash crop in that country. Seems to me that if we need a War on Drugs, we gotta have Drugs , and we have done exceptionally well maintaining an ever increasing supply of Opium to the US. So we accomplished our main goal, a lot of people made tons of money, we have expanded our role in the War on Drugs and secured our very futures with never ending employment in the War on Drugs.
We lost the moment the idiot Bush and his chief dhimmi Karen Hughes starting bleating on about “girls can go to school again!!!”, and off the track we went. Funny, after Pearl Harbor, I don’t recall the liberal FDR taking his shoes off in a Shinto shrine and then calling for us to rescue the wonderful Japanese people from the tyrant Tojo. The mission was clear: defeat and destroy the enemy. When the twin towers fell, did you give two shits about women’s rights in Afghanistan? That’s what we got for electing “compassionate conservatism”. And it looks like we are about to do it yet again.
The whole damned hellhole should have been turned into a *green glass skating rink* in ‘92, and not a drop of American blood or treasure should have been wasted. 20-20 hindsight, I know. I said it then, based upon what happened to the Soviets in the 80s. I caught flak for it from a lot of people (not here). History is a great teacher. It would have remedied the world’s opium/heroin etc problem too, at least for a few years.
If a nation ignores history, it is bound to repeat it. Although there have been several conquerors of Afganistan, none have been able to proceed to civilizing or changing the minds or the lives of Afgans.
We were right to invade and kill as many Taliban as possible, but when that task was completed as much as practically possible, it was time to leave Afganistan to be itself, with the stern caviot that we would not tolerate any other outside force or group to infiltrate the power vacuum we left.
With our blood and treasure we have shown them a better way. Now, let the damn Afgans be Afgans, if their choice is to live in the 8th Century, so be it. If they try to growm opium, Agent Orange the poppy fields.
The only satisfaction I would derive from restoration of Taliban control is the comeuppance the ingrate Afghans (a pity for the appreciative ones) would suffer as they once again stew in their Taliban juices.
The answer is obvious and we have not only this Neo-Commie Despot (Barack Hussein Obama) to blame, but also our very own "Compassionate Conservative" clueless, RINO, Boosh, who allowed both Iraq and Af-Gan to form new Constitutions with Islam (Sharia) being the controlling authorities.
That in itself was to be the deciding factor in neither country ever being a true ally; their never being willing to engage fellow Islamofascist terrorist brethren; and the guarantee that what ol George was so gun ho about (Nation Building and Hearts and Minds) would never come to fruition, never mind, that the people in those countries would never experience freedom, rights and liberties.
BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!
You can’t support a war anymore and expect it to be fought right. It just gets worse with each war we are involved in, and it’s why we haven’t had a decisive victory in a war since WW2, which also was against a much more powerful enemy than any we have faced since. Even though we have such a well trained military force with the most advanced weapons the world has ever seen they are not allowed to win wars any longer. We don’t have what it takes to fight a total war that we are willing to win at all cost any longer, and we have shown time and time again that it’s impossible to fight the way we want to fantasize war is fought and still win. If we aren’t willing to fight a total war then it’s a war we don’t find important enough to be fighting in the first place. We either need to stop getting involved in wars or start fighting them the way history has shown they should be fought to win. That involves a lot of brutal realities that come with any war, no matter how necessary they are, and we need to accept that or accept that we don’t have what it takes as a people to win wars anymore. Trying to make war something that it isn’t, and refusing to ever accept the obvious truth of it, is exactly why we can’t win them anymore.
“War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”
Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman
If the people raise a howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war.
Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman
Regardless of your personal opinion of Sherman he is quoting the obvious truth of war, and our history has shown us the consequences of trying to change it into something that’s not quite as ugly as it is in reality has done to our success at victory.
We shouldn’t be having 10+ year wars with nations like Iraq and Afghanistan. They should have never happened, or have been over with during the Bush administration as they could have been. Instead we try nation building, and give civilian lives so much thought that it prevents us from ever having a chance. I imagine the leaders we had in WW2 would have liked to trade their enemy to those we face today who pose no threat to an unleashed U.S. military. We have the best trained and equipped troops on earth, but they are hampered and forced to give their lives fighting ridiculous strategies for things like propping up a government in Afghanistan that literally allows in it’s constitution the right to murder those who convert from Islam. I somehow doubt we would have allowed that in the past, or allowed Japan to do something like that after the war. We not only try and nation build which our military isn’t trained or meant to do, but we can’t even build a nation friendly toward us.
You can’t support a war anymore and expect it to be fought right. It just gets worse with each war we are involved in, and it’s why we haven’t had a decisive victory in a war since WW2, which also was against a much more powerful enemy than any we have faced since. Even though we have such a well trained military force with the most advanced weapons the world has ever seen they are not allowed to win wars any longer. We don’t have what it takes to fight a total war that we are willing to win at all cost any longer, and we have shown time and time again that it’s impossible to fight the way we want to fantasize war is fought and still win. If we aren’t willing to fight a total war then it’s a war we don’t find important enough to be fighting in the first place. We either need to stop getting involved in wars or start fighting them the way history has shown they should be fought to win. That involves a lot of brutal realities that come with any war, no matter how necessary they are, and we need to accept that or accept that we don’t have what it takes as a people to win wars anymore. Trying to make war something that it isn’t, and refusing to ever accept the obvious truth of it, is exactly why we can’t win them anymore.
“War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”
Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman
If the people raise a howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war.
Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman
Regardless of your personal opinion of Sherman he is quoting the obvious truth of war, and our history has shown us the consequences of trying to change it into something that’s not quite as ugly as it is in reality has done to our success at victory.
We shouldn’t be having 10+ year wars with nations like Iraq and Afghanistan. They should have never happened, or have been over with during the Bush administration as they could have been. Instead we try nation building, and give civilian lives so much thought that it prevents us from ever having a chance. I imagine the leaders we had in WW2 would have liked to trade their enemy to those we face today who pose no threat to an unleashed U.S. military. We have the best trained and equipped troops on earth, but they are hampered and forced to give their lives fighting ridiculous strategies for things like propping up a government in Afghanistan that literally allows in it’s constitution the right to murder those who convert from Islam. I somehow doubt we would have allowed that in the past, or allowed Japan to do something like that after the war. We not only try and nation build which our military isn’t trained or meant to do, but we can’t even build a nation friendly toward us.
We kicked the Taliban’s ass and taught the state supporters of terrorism a lesson that they only now are beginning to forget. I’d say the war in Afghanistan (and Iraq) bought the West a decade of freedom from the most egregious acts of terrorism on its own soil.
What does “winning” in Afghanistan look like? Anyone? Bueller?
We should have left in 2003 or so, right after the punitive expedition phase, before meals on wheels, aka “Nation Building”.
We should never have gotten into Afghanistan.
In a thousand years, nobody has ever been successful at a land war in that region.
We should have just bombed them into oblivion and come home.
If we really needed to target specific individuals, that should have been done by the CIA on a personal level.
We leave Afghanistan....And Then What Happens?
I’ve seen this movie before, and Randolf Scott does not save the day.
The only thing left for this is the final picture - the helicopter taking off from the roof of the US Embassy. It will be blamed on Bush.
Having been there, as I’m sure many on FR have been, I learned a few things. But one of the most poignant was that in order for anything to happen in Afghanistan that would be considered positive, in Western standards, it would probably take at least 2 generations.
You’re talking about educating a country where they wipe their asses with their hands, they sell their daughters, the tribal leader is more important than anyone else, kids mean nothing - especially girls and the grandaddy’s of them all(IMHO) are the concept of “Pashtun Man Love” and the rampant pedophilia - directed toward boys.
Most people in the western, civilized world couldn’t comprehend the savagery that is every day life in that country and never will.
Aaaannnnndddddddd....on top of all of that, the entire political, religious and socio-economic system is run by a bunch of thugs that hide behind their religion when its convenient for them. as does Islam in general.
Our troops have never lost in Afghanistan. In every instance when they have been called upon, our troops have resoundingly defeated the enemy.
Our politicians have played games there for years with warloards and Pakistan.