Hard to find truth in Zimmerman’s call to police

[Java4Jay]

I’m having great difficulty locating the original full version of Zimmerman’s call to police, one that is not enhanced to make wind noise sound like a racial slur.

[PhatHead]

To explain why I think of his remarks as "stirring the pot," in his meeting with the 13 yo witness's mother, he suggests that Z was driven by profiling - that he was seeking evidence of that, or otherwise catching Z in a lie.

That's really interesting, and I had not read that. There are quite a few reports in which it is suggested (with no backing) that police were biased in favor of Zimmerman, and guided witness statements in that direction. Do you have a link for this report (I will of course look for it myself.)

[OneLoyalAmerican]

Greetings 21twelve:

Did the girlfriend call 911 after Trayvon is allegedly confronted by Zimmerman and she can not re-establish the conversation with Trayvon?

Cheers,
OLA

[Cboldt]

But in Serino's account, TM and Z exchange words in that first encounter. That's what has me puzzled.

According to Tracy Martin, the Sanford, Fla., detective recounted this sequence of events: Trayvon Martin walked up to Zimmerman's vehicle and asked why he was following him. Zimmerman denied following the youth and rolled up the car window. Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle.

Then came the second encounter, according to Tracy Martin's recollection of the detective's account. Trayvon Martin appeared from behind a building in Zimmerman's gated community, approached him and demanded, "What's your problem, homie?" ...

The second paragraph of that tracks Z's testimony, as told by brother and father, but what about the first paragraph? That doesn't correspond with the time-frame of the recorded Z call with dispatch.

[PhatHead]

Crump, the family lawyer, has DeeDee in conversation with Trayvon for all or most of his trip to the store and back.

ABC News confirmed a call from Martin to Dee Dee starting at 19:12 (they posted a photo - phone #'s obscured - of the cellular bill.) This is about the time Zimmerman was reporting that Martin had run away, and lasting nearly until Zimmerman was first heard yelling for help. That call lasted four minutes. There were other calls throughout the day between Martin and DeeDee.

[BlatherNaut]

I'm not overly concerned with what his father says, to be honest. I lost a son myself three years ago, and I would give the parents a lot of leeway considering the emotional strain they are under. I don't grant the same leeway to the people trying to exploit their grief. As for the voice recognition part, I'm inclined to think the father's first reaction is the more credible, for the simple reason that I believe it was given in a less politically charged context.

So sorry for your loss.

Completely agree with your logic.

[Cboldt]

Here is the root link I am working from: George Zimmerman's crumbling story, part 3: the detective - WaPo - Jonathan Capehart

Embedded in that are several interesting links.

I agree with you that the "two conversations" remark might be misinterpretation by Tracy. But that's a fairly detailed accounting, and not apt to be conjured out of thin air by Tracy.

So, I am thinking that Serino has this theory in his mind (IOW, it isn't a Tracy misunderstanding), and I wonder how he got it. If Serino has this belief, it would tend to explain why he's not keen on Z - Z could have squared the whole suspicion thing up during the first conversation.

[PhatHead]

I can’t imagine that part would have been edited out of the recording, so I guess he must be saying that Zimmerman was back in his car after the call, then left the car again. But there was not a lot of time between the call and the fight - 2 1/2 minutes max - for a second encounter at the car to have occurred.

[Reese Hamm]

So I’m not sure TM “Jumped” Zimmerman from behind - but probably started off with words that got out of control. (Although perhaps caught him off guard hiding behind a bush or something).

Reports of Zimmerman's initial statement (not confirmed or denied by the police at this point):

"Zimmerman told police that he lost sight of Martin and was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Martin asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Martin responded, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose."

[Side note: I've seen reports that GZ's father is now saying that TM said, "You're gonna die now, m******f******" or something to that effect which is much more inflammatory than GZ's reported, "Well, you do now."]

Martin's girlfriend doesn't know who spotted whom first but she does confirm that TM was the first to speak -- "Why you following me?" and GZ's "What are you doing here?" (Was this the exchange of words mentioned in GZ's reported statement?)

She also claims that she heard a scuffle followed by a disconnected line. And like the initial sighting, she would have no way to know if this scuffle was initiated by TM or by GM.

Proposed theory: Is it possible that the "you got a problem?" and the "no" came after a bit of shoving or grabbing by one or both? When GZ reached for his phone, did TM see the gun holster tucked inside his waistband? Is is possible that he punched GZ because he mistakenly though GZ was going for his gun at that point? If you punch a guy with a gun, a guy that you know spent several minutes watching you for no reason that you're aware of, do you then let him up or do you make sure he's incapacitated before you stop?

Said in previous threads and repeating here for good measure here: I don't think either of these guys thought they were the bad guy. There seems to be ample indication that each was highly suspicious of the other. Tension was likely high on both sides and each reacted accordingly. Unfortunately, it ended very badly for both of them.

[Cboldt]

-- ABC News confirmed a call from Martin to Dee Dee starting at 19:12 --

The phone bill relates to Trayvon's phone (see "Welcome tracy" on the bill)

• 6:30 pm calling North Dade 13 minutes long (T-Mobile-to-T-mobile)
• 6:41 pm incoming call 4 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
• 6:45 pm calling North Dade 5 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
• 6:46 pm calling North Dade 2 minutes long
• 6:49 pm incoming call 4 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
• 6:54 pm incoming call 18 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
• 7:04 pm incoming call 1 minute long
• 7:12 pm incoming call 4 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)

So, that 7:12 call is DeeDee calling Martin, not the other way around.

[Eva]

There is no way to prove that Zimmerman is guilty of anything. All the evidence supported Zimmerman’s story.

There is no point in all this conjecture.

I’m wondering if Zimmerman can sue NBC for that edited tape that NBC touted as the “smoking gun”?

[rolling_stone]

So why was Zimmerman so obsessed with “maintaining sight”

Anybody want to tackle that question

Yeah sure, he thought Martin was acting suspicious many burglaries recently, common sense says he tried to maintain sight to see if Martin broke into a house or where he went so he could tell the cops when they got there-he knew they were on their way so why would nhe shoot someone without reason when he kney the cops woudl be there very soon? If he was on top of Martin pummeling him how would that look when the cops showed up? Martin had no wounds accordingf to funeral director so why would he be screaming, did he want his skittles that bad to scream for them?

oh yea here is the non-refundable fee schedule for “voice analysis” by Owen Forensic Services

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/rates.html

[ironman]

Here is a link to the Hardball segment.

Video: MSNBC Admits Zimmerman Had Head Injury http://is.gd/y6WWA3

[Cboldt]

-- I can't imagine that part would have been edited out of the recording, so I guess he must be saying that Zimmerman was back in his car after the call, then left the car again. --

I don't think the call is edited at all. So, if BOTH Serino's story of two speaking encounters, and the call are to be squared, they can't be in the same timeframe. I see two possibilities IF there was a first conversation, and both of them have the first conversation happening before the recorded call.

1. Z watching TM, TM comes over and they talk, window rolled up. Z keeps watching, and calls dispatch. Z's account over the phone is honest - TM stares, approaches, stares more, hands in waistband, runs.

2. Z watching TM, TM comes over and they talk, window rolled up. TM runs away. Z pissed. Z calls dispatch and makes up the narrative.

I don't see time for the recorded call, THEN two separate spoken encounters, the first with Z back in his truck. The evidence diverges too far from that theory.

[Cboldt]

-- [Side note: I've seen reports that GZ's father is now saying that TM said, "You're gonna die now, m******f******" or something to that effect which is much more inflammatory than GZ's reported, "Well, you do now."] --

There is enough time in the altercation to have both. "You [have a problem] now" as the first punch is thrown, then, when Z's gun is revealed and TM attempts to take it, TM saying "You're gonna die tonight." 45 - 75 seconds between the two remarks. From 911 calls, there was an argument, words, not just fighting.

[OneLoyalAmerican]

Greetings ironman:

Thank you kindly for the link.

Cheers,
OLA

[Reese Hamm]

There is no way to prove that Zimmerman is guilty of anything.

This is correct given what we currently know.

All the evidence supported Zimmerman’s story.

I think it would be more accurate to say that, so far, nothing conclusively contradicts it.

[PhatHead]

That version is what I understood Zimmerman’s family to be stating.

[trappedincanuckistan]

You guys know too much. Best be looking over your shoulders when crossing the street :)

[Cboldt]

-- It's more than a theory, I'd say. This is on the recording of Zimmerman's call to police, and there's no reason to think Zimmerman was fabricating this account - although I'm not sure I'd call it a "confrontation" --

That's what I'm trying to reconcile and figure out. Where did the first conversation, words exchanged and window rolled up (then a wait of minutes) come from?

I think Serino described an exchange of words between TM and Z - and this could NOT coincide with Z's phone call to dispatch. So how did Serino come to this belief? Did Z give a statement that included a first verbal exchange?

[kanawa]

FYI

original source... http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/new-videos-show-zimmermans-gashed-head-and-broken-face

Found via... http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-George-Zimmerman-from-racial-onslaught/111653988888547

~~~~~

Orlando Sentinal is running a piece in which they have audio “experts” declare that the cries for help on the 911 tapes are, beyond a doubt, NOT Zimmerman. Other outlets are picking it up and running with it.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

One expert claims to knows this by simply listening. The other (Tom Owen) uses some software to compare the two.

The article fails to mention, however, that the software used to analyze the audio is actually Mr. Owen’s own product which he sells online. Of course he’s going to present it as providing 100% accurate results. I’m sure he would also love the publicity that this article will bring to his product.

If you go to the site for the software, no mention is made of Mr. Owen or his company. The only contact information is a PO Box and toll-free number.
http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com/

If you check the WHOIS information with the registrar of the domain, however, Mr. Owen and his company are clearly listed as the owner of the domain and site.
http://who.wildwestdomains.com/whois.aspx?domain=easyvoicebiometrics.com&prog_id=wildwestdomains

Furthermore, a simple search on Google for “voice biometrics” returns only results pertaining to security - nothing relating to forensics or law enforcement. Clearly this software and technology is not widely used for this application.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&pq=test&cp=9&gs_id=1e&xhr=t&q=voice+biometrics

Please get the word out on this. I imagine this will be the next “smoking gun”/”icing on the cake” in the case.

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