Posted on 03/28/2012 6:33:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Right. When asked for a description, he says, "looks black".
After the other guy turns and looks at him directly, he describes him more confidently as black.
Throughout the call, it's clear that his objective is to provide the 911 operator with accurate details so that the police can follow up.
The way I see it, if you are armed and your back is to the ground being pummeled, you don't have a "right" to shoot, you have an "obligation" to shoot. It's only a matter of time before the attacker finds your gun and shoots you with it. And perhaps someone else after that.
Zimmerman really didn't have much choice about firing once he was on the ground.
Or never finds it, but bashes your head open instead.
I couldn't agree more. My “You call the cops, and that’s it" was directed at someone who is armed....you don't go chasing the threat. If you do then, at least in CT, YOU become the threat in the eyes of the cops.
If the threat is walking away or leaving the area, your need of the cops lessens. The fact of the matter was & is, if you have a gun you need to react differently than if you did not. You can't play cop & go chasing after the bad guy. At least, not in CT. In CT, the laws seem to be written to protect the bad guys.
Fortunately, GA IS a stand your ground state. I’m just waiting to go to the capital to counterprotest the nitwits(is that pc?—the first two letters, after all start with ni) who are gathering enmasse to rescind that law.
Has any account so far stated exactly why poor Trayvon was in this community to start with? Was he walking his dog, visiting a friend, or what?
Assuming the facts given are essentially true I don’t see where the stand your ground law is relevant. If Zimmerman was on the ground being pummeled, his actions then became a matter of self defense.
Are you attentive about others in your surroundings? Do you take stock of what other people are doing?
Anyway, my remarks to you go back to your "if Zimmerman actively pursued Martin as reported, does the law still protect him?" I gave an "it depends" answer. Your criteria, that if he has a gun he can;t possibly be a passive observer, is absurd on its face, as your own admitted conduct of carrying a gun shows.
The law protects Zimmerman very well if his actions aim to avoid close contact, confrontation, and use of force; even if he is armed.
So, did he avoid close contact & confrontation here? Obviously not. That's my point. His actions, IF we're to believe reports, were not those of a passive observer.
So, my statement was not absurd.You cannot be both a passive observer AND have a confrontation.
As far as your as your own admitted conduct of carrying a gun shows comment...my conduct is really based on my training within the State of CT. Florida may be different, I don't know. I am only speaking as a CT. CCW holder.
My point is that you are jumping to the conclusion that it was Zimmerman's intention to obtain close contact and a confrontation; not that those events didn't occur. You attribute the close contact to Zimmerman's actions, but close contact may have come from Martin's initiative.
-- So, my statement was not absurd.You cannot be both a passive observer AND have a confrontation. --
I agree that one can't be passive while seeking confrontation. But if Zimmerman is retreating to his vehicle, having abandoned the attempt to maintain visual contact while on foot; and while Zimmerman is in that state of mind, Martin elects to provoke a confrontation, well, of course Zimmerman is no longer a passive observer. But not by his choice.
Why do you carry a gun? I submit that you hope all of the time to be no more than an observer, and the gun stays concealed. You carry because you are concerned that somebody else's initiative will force you to change from what you want to be, a passive observer. So, are you guilty of murder if you act in self defense? Obviously, you carry a gun, so you must want to kill somebody.
You misunderstand me. I was speaking in general not, necessarily, about Zimmerman.
Why do you carry a gun?
For the same reason I wear a seat belt in my car.
We're both on the same side here, sometimes I cannot effectively convey my thoughts in writing. For that, I apologize.
I was too - but the Martin shooting is a good example to clarify thoughts. It seemed to me that you attributed or assumed certain conduct to Zimmerman, that wasn't necessarily present.
-- We're both on the same side here, sometimes I cannot effectively convey my thoughts in writing. For that, I apologize. --
No need for any apology. I'm in the same boat you are, trying to express my thoughts.
He requested medical assistance.. The cops wouldn’t allow it.
I so want La Raza to get involved in this.
Doubt it will happen though.
You can listen to it on the 911 recording, and that is exactly what the emergency call center operator says. So yes, it is accurate, and those making that statement into more than it is need to listen most of all.
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