Posted on 03/15/2012 7:43:22 PM PDT by Mariner
Anyone who wants to sit back and call this soldier’s actions unacceptable are, IMO, just as bad as that a$$hole in the White Hut.
Yeah, call for the death penalty.
When you can’t trust any of the people you are supposed to be helping, from the locals, to their military, to their government, to our commanders and politicians and you just can’t take any more, then, IMO, what he did is completely acceptable.
I think he was backed into a corner. And now let’s back him up against a wall?
The military has it’s head up their collective butt when it comes to any treatment. They bring people home, get them out and wash their hands.
And with no help too many returned troops are KILLING THEMSELVES.
That sure is a win-win.
Let’s call what he did an atrocity.
The ATROCITY has been committed against him. Against his brothers. Against OUR SONS. AGAINST YOU.
Kill a few and you are a murderer. Kill thousands and you are a conquerer. Kill MILLIONS and you are a god.
I laud his effort.
The "BB" is Colton Harris-Moore who, at age 20, stole airplanes, cars and boats while escaping apprehension after a series of over 100 burglaries in the Pacific Northwest and Canada.
He was captured in the Bahamas. He was sentenced to seven years after a plea arrangement in which, among other things, he agreed to forfeit any profits from selling publishing rights to his admittedly fascinating, unusual and daring criminal getaways.
John Henry Browne is by all accounts a highly capable and aggressive counsellor in his respected and respectable career.
Leni
Not being able to trust the people you’re supposed to be helping is bad enough. Not being able to trust the people you’ve made an oath to obey is even worse. And our soldiers have it from both sides right now; they can’t trust their leadership, they can’t trust their allies, and they can’t necessarily trust the guy fighting next to them. I can think of no worse way to demoralize our fighting guys, since what keeps them going, as I understand it, is the commitment they have to the people who fight beside them.
Panetta disarmed his own men in a combat zone because he didn’t trust them. What does that say to his guys? I think it tells them they are on their own.
It never works to have an enemy combatant as Commander-in-Chief. I hate the people who elected Obama for doing this to our fighting men. They have nobody they can trust and a lot of the officers by now are probably wondering whether they can serve under Obama and still keep their oaths. What Sheriff Arpaio found puts Lakin’s actions in a whole different light, since Obama as a fraud probably means that Joe Biden is the only one who can give Constitutional orders as CINC and Biden opposed the Afghanistan surge.
So we’ve got our guys over there being asked to do an impossible mission that doesn’t even include winning, serving as bulls-eye targets with ROE that don’t allow them to shoot until it’s too late, taking unconstitutional orders from somebody who’s already stated he supports the “Muslim agenda” - which is the destruction of the US and Israel and the institution of worldwide sharia. And they’ve got their own Def Sec showing he doesn’t trust them.
They’ve watched the Haditha Marines put through years of hell by our own NCIS obstructing justice and being subject to undue command influence (since Murtha held the purse strings and wanted to use the soldiers for political purposes). They’ve seen people killed in spite of all the Muslim-in-Chief’s apologies for what is at worst an honest mistake that still resulted in prisoner-desecrated korans being destroyed as they are supposed to be. And the illegal CINC and his thus-illegal SecDef are now both calling for the heads of a guy who either went off the rails or not.
Like I said, I’m reserving judgment on this guy because at this point I don’t trust anybody who is telling the stories. The Muslim media lies. The American media lies. The military lies. The politicians lie. Our “allies” lie...
I hate it that we’ve got an enemy combatant in the White House. This is all so wrong on so many levels.
Thanks for the links. I’m struck again by the way those guys say what they think, no holds barred.
Sounds like the biggest problem they have with Yon is his ego and his reporting of the gory details of a soldier’s death - for the sake of the soldier’s family who might suffer because of the description - and the fact that his fellow soldiers wept for his death.
Crying over the death of somebody you love is nothing to be ashamed of, but I realize that not crying - or at least not having people know you cried - might be a necessary facade in order for the guys to keep doing what they do. Lifting that veil could be more degrading or hurtful than stripping them of all their clothes and weapons in view of everybody. But then, I’ve never been there so I don’t even know what I’m talking about with that either.
It reminds me of a discussion I had with my dad, who fought on the front lines in Korea. I asked him what it was like, and after thinking a while he said, “Nellie, I fought over there so that you would never have to know what it was like to be in war.”
We all want to be able to be with our soldiers in their time of need and to be able to understand what they need from us, and to show our respect and appreciation for what they’ve been through. Make sure they know they don’t need to hide or be ashamed of what they’ve done and been through. Reporters with integrity must feel like they have to portray things honestly.
But for the guys who are out there, maybe they just want to be left alone with only the others who have been there with them in the trenches knowing what it’s like and the things they are both proud of and not so proud of in the middle of a crazy time.
Sort of makes me think about the end of “To Kill a Mockingbird”, where Atticus wanted to do the whole legal sorting out of who killed Bob Ewell, but the sheriff would only allow the death to be ruled accidental - because in the scrutiny of defending Jem Finch from manslaughter charges it would be revealed that Boo Radley was a hero who saved Scout’s life, and that limelight would kill him - a mockingbird who wanted nothing than to just be able to quietly sing for those who were willing to hear him. To rake him through the public scrutiny - even if it ended in praise - would be to kill a mockingbird.
I wonder if some of the soldiers feel like us civilians trying to understand - even if it results in praise - would be like killing a mockingbird. I know the SEALs were disgusted with Biden naming the SEALS as having done the Bin Laden raid - and at least partly because them receiving glory would jeopardize future missions, a view totally vindicated when a couple dozen were killed not long after having received the notoreity.
I don’t know what the deal is with Yon, so I’ll take what he says with a grain of salt and just ponder it in the back of my mind as possible true and possibly not true. I don’t know how else to respond.
We need to know far more about this case before the soldier is judged by us.
The rumors are that he just saw his best buddy get his leg blown off, and it was a 4th tour. Maybe we had better wait a little to see more facts.
However, those who enlist are more motivated. Simple human dynamics. Think the difference between basic Army infantry/artillary and volunteer Rangers; or Navy squids and SEALS; or Air Force mechs and ground combat air controllers. Of course there are Marine Recon, but all Marines are motivated simply by being Marines.
Also, the Viet-Nam war was full of druggies who couldn't give a shit less about who or why they were fighting. They did so just not to get put in prison. And no, I didn't get that from the movies. I've known many good patriots who have told me the same. Volunteers make the best military.
If this soldier walked into a room and obliterated women and children with no evidence of a threat, he should be hung for murder. Our troops don't do that. We are the good guys and don't exterminate people like the radical muslims do.
There is no excuse if the evidence turns out to be correct. I don't care how many deployments he had - he snapped. Shit happens. My own father told me of Army soldiers killing each other during WWII simply because they were facing death night and day and pumped up. They'd argue, get into a fist fight, and then draw weapons. It happens. It's called "fog of war".
And you know what? Once it was proven who fired first, they went to Leavenworth. I think this guy should also go there if the evidence is true, or to an insane asylum, as they used to be called, for life.
That said, I have no problem with bombing Iran into oblivion to keep them from obtaining nukes. Yes, I know that's hypocritical, but there I am. War is war. Murder is murder. Don't like it - don't enlist. I did and would do it all over again.
With all due respect, that has been a long standing order for all cabinet personnel. It's entirely reasonable since the Secret Service never knows who will snap. This is a non-issue. And yes, I hate Pantyletta as much as the next military man.
Our fkn kids need to be pulled out of that hellhole and returned home now! It seems anymore that they are just political pawns. Are they supposed to be used for “nation building?” People have tried to explain to me the benefits of being in Afghanistan still, and I understand (sort of) what they mean, but I just don’t buy it, personally.
There seem to be conflicting reports as to whether this is SOP or not. Uncle Jimbo over at Blackfive called this a WTF moment because he said several of the posters there have been armed in such a situation so it’s not SOP.
Already 70 posts, and no mention of the possibility of government mind control of the soldier (the Russians supposedly have this). What was the timing of the Panetta visit. His previous head injury distinguishes the electrical “footprint” of his brainwaves enough that he was easily targeted for a mission such as this.
My diagnosis, if he did do it, is that he wanted to do it in the buff and listened to the voices in his head instead of taking meds. Could have been sleep deprived, and alcohol would not have been an issue. Paranoid affective disorder.
Not to start a rumor mill, but I just got it that they were hiding a Talibanican in that village.
And I also want to point out that “We are the good guys” is a standard that is not applicable in F ghanistan.
“War is war. Murder is murder.”
Just take off the gloves and call it what it really is.
WAR IS MURDER.
Look from that angle and no one has to worry about hypocrisy.
So when a majority decides to have a war and then when things start to unravel or just not work out the way they wanted, it is complete chickensh!+ bullsh!+ to point fingers at the troops. No matter what they may have done.
And furthermore, there shouldn’t be ONE vote counted in the upcoming election until the troop vote is in.
“That said, I have no problem with bombing Iran into oblivion to keep them from obtaining nukes.”
Why not F ghanistan on our way out? We managed to put them back on top of the world in opium production. How many lives does that crap annihilate? YAY for us. The good guys.
YAY for us.
One more thing. This village is 500 yards from the base? He has time to walk out after being seen leaving, wipe out the group and set fire to some of them?
Betcha he was groomed to take out a high value target that was "untouchable" under SOP because of the risk of collaterals. He gets done, reports back to his handler, and is airlifted to Germany for a debrief. Get your ducks in row boys. We gots ourselves a mind-snapped rogue on a killing spree. We'll have a nice speedy trial followed by a first class hangin'. Right after church.
See this link, I know of what I speak! Just posted.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/kony_video_director_arrested_in_S9UL4UgO4FdzAF1pVpNHwI
I have always said I wish every voter would seriously consider that the person they are voting for as President would also be Commander in Chief of our Military if elected. So many do not care, not just liberals either.
‘I’m gonna reserve judgment also. After Haditha, there’s just no other reasonable response. We have no idea what really happened, or whether we will ever know the truth about it.”
After two tours in South VN when I thought the US gov was full of crap I now no longer believe a single word spouted by the US Gov. I used to think that the gov was corrupt and now I truly believe that it is the most corrupt, lying, self serving eniety on the planet. We will NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH and thats just the way it is. just my .02 worth.
I know a few people who have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Never once have I heard them use the word “tour.”
Radiated is new and deserves a hearing.
I think a troop who served 4 tours in a seemingly never-ending war might see the carnage in our military and be looking for a better way.
There ARE some good things to commend a FAIR draft. I lived through the draft years of Vietnam and joined in 1970. A fair draft would ensure that every classification of Americans would have some skin in the game.
That might not override the value of a professional force, but it is a significant thing in a day when most Americans don’t even remember we have troops in danger.
I say we should give radiated spam a fair shot at being a long-term freeper.
If you want to vouch for him as personally known to you (friend, son-in-law, whatever), I might re-consider.
Until then, I consider it a troll.
/johnny
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