Posted on 02/21/2012 7:18:55 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
Every once in a while I come across an article that sheds light on what a boondoggle the green initiatives of the Obama Administration are. The latest evidence comes as General Motors tries to prove high consumer demand for the Chevy Volt as it tries to meet its goalof 10,000 vehicles sold in 2011. The Orlando Sentinel reports that the town of DeLand, FL is buying five Chevy Volts. That is not the disturbing part of the story. The article reports that the town is using taxpayer money it has received from a $1.2 million federal grant that is earmarked partially to help with the purchase of alternative-fuel vehicles and other energy-efficient upgrades, including electrical chargingstations at City Hall. From the information I gathered on DeLand, it has a population of about 25,000 people.
(Excerpt) Read more at nlpc.org ...
Type of charge is the key here. A dead battery needs 10 hours which is where your battery is going to be after just 25 miles of driving. When was the last time you believed the hype coming out of GM about the true performance of their vehicles?
Huh?
I never mentioned 25 mile range in this thread? All my calculations have assumed GM’s top end claim of 40 miles.
But ‘please point out’ that the charging claims you previously posted were bogus, ‘so the reader won’t think’ he can charge a Volt on 120V in 6 hours.
Here's one piece about CEO Akerson.
Will GM's Akerson Come Clean on the Chevy Volt?
There are many articles here at FR posted by varioyus people, type in keyword chevyvolt in the search function and there'll be enough articles to keep you busy for hours.
There have been many half truths about the Volt from GM (Akerson on down their ranks), car mags that receive GM advertising money and Obama cronies.
You'll have to ask the author, Eric Bolling. I would assume it NYC.
This gives us real data on the charging efficiency:
120V * 12A * 6h = 8.64 kWh
120V * 8A * 8h = 7.68 kWh
Now, how come that the battery is claimed to produce 16 kWh if you put in barely a half of that? The answer is, you can't. The 16 kWh is the full battery capacity, from 100% SOC to 0% (after which you can throw the battery out, it's dead and can't be charged anymore.)
The battery in Volt (as well as in other hybrids) is operating in a range of SOC that preserves the capacity. Say, it can be charged up to 80% and discharged down to 30%. That gives you half of the full battery capacity to be used to propel the car.
But there is one more catch. Nothing is 100% efficient. Waste heat is produced whenever you plug something in. Power will be wasted in house wiring (from the meter down to the outlet) then it will be wasted in the charger, then it will be heating the battery up as it is charging. This all means that the actual charge that goes into the battery is even lower. Perhaps 7.0 to 7.5 kWh is all you can hope for. This also matches the reports that Volt switches to gasoline after 25 miles or so.
Price-wise, PG&E in CA has tiered rates. EV owners can get preferrable rates, as long as they charge at night. Still, 8 kWh every day pushes it closer to the daily baseline of about 12 kWh, after which you move into another, more expensive, tier. Exact details are hard to get. But if you are in the lowest tier and use the EV rate plan and remain under the baseline I'd think you will pay not more than $0.10 per kWh, and the charge then will be under a dollar per day. Since the EV range of Volt is claimed to be about 25-30 miles, you'd need about 1/2 gal. of gasoline to do the same in a modern efficient gas car - so Volt saves you not more than $1 per day. This saving is insufficient to cover extra expenses that come with the car (the list is long and it was already mentioned in this thread.) You will also be penalized if you charge the car during the day; that alone is likely to kill your savings. Be a good citizen, work from 9 to 5 and sleep at night. Volt is not for shift workers or for many other workers who have to take the car out at night.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.””””
ARE YOU SURE???
Where do you live?
I live in N Nevada. I am pretty sure our main source of power is coal fired plants, with some geothermal.
I paid 12.05338 CENTS per kilowatt hour for my last bill, which covered Dec 12 to Jan 12 & was for 562 kwh, with a total of $67.74. I am running the winter furnace heat & I have an electric dryer. I use ONLY incadescent light bulbs because the curly ones give me a headache.
If you weren’t accusing me of making the 25 mile claim, then why did you deem it my responsibility to correct it? Why not address it with the poster who made the statement? If you mis-fired and blamed me for something I didn’t post, I deem it ok for you to admit it.
Yes, you are correct, with a 240V station, charging times are reduced to 4 hours (still not as good as the press release you regurgitated, which said as low as 3 hours, but good).
Lets look at the 240V station though, shall we:
It only costs $490.
Ooops...plus installation, around $1,475.
Total estimate $1,965.
But heck, the gubmint will usually pay for some of it.
But lets go back to my original post, in which you keyed off of the 10 hour claim (keeping in mind the 10 hr number comes directly from the Volt website). I will use all caps to change it, to meet your standards (while not changing the meaning at all):
The 10 hr charge [OR 4 HOUR IF YOU PONY UP $2 K) gets the Volt about as far as a gallon of gas.
How much coal is that?
By my calculation, 9.75 lb of coal.
A gallon of gas weighs around 7.1 lb.
Sounds green to me.
So what have we learned here?
1. You were victim to reading a 2009 GM press release...and actually believing it. I used GM’s current claims.
2. My original statement does not change in meaning, even if you go to the extreme measure of spending $2k on a charging station.
3. I started out posting in this thread, with the statement that we had to use ‘real numbers’ to discuss the Volt. Therefore, I have used ‘top end’ 40 mile range numbers, as well as ‘low end’ 12 kwh charging requirements....giving the Volt the benefit in any case of doubt....and it still pencils out to be a foolish concept.
On the incandescent lights being better than CFL because of headaches. You aren't alone. I am a supplier of commercial and industrial lighting (some domestic, too). The CFL scam is going to come to a screeching halt soon and the government knows it. That's why they backed off the mandate to quit selling incandescent.
Ya...I’ve always wanted to stay put for 10 hours so I could get home....
NYC? not according to this:
http://www.bls.gov/ro2/avgengny.pdf
When an author makes such a glaring mistake (getting the electric rate off by an order of magnitude), it totally undermines any credibility they might have.
The candidates better get on message and start report this kind of stuff or we’re lookin’ at another four years of the destruction of our beloved country.
I’m not suggesting that you, I or anybody else do anything.
But when I see something on FR that is so clearly incorrect (by a factor of 10), I’ll often chime in.
One of the strengths of FR is the peer review aspect.
When I recommend FR to somebody, I don’t want them to come over here and see clearly incorrect data go unchallenged.
I’m not suggesting that you, I or anybody else do anything.
But when I see something on FR that is so clearly incorrect (by a factor of 10), I’ll often chime in.
One of the strengths of FR is the peer review aspect.
When I recommend FR to somebody, I don’t want them to come over here and see clearly incorrect data go unchallenged.
You are the only one who assumed the car is to be charged while on the road.
1. You were victim to reading a 2009 GM press release...and actually believing it. I used GM’s current claims.Both the 2009 press release and the more recent chevy volt website contained information that you did not want to report, because you did not like it. You did not cite (a) the 4-hour charging time in 240 stations, and (b) the fact that the Chevy Volt site mentioned 35 miles instead of 25 in regard to the battery capacity. You pretend that the Chevy Volt website vindicates your claims, but it does not.
Ya...there is that subset of drivers wanting to lug around a battery & electronics in a gas driven car, just for eco-image.
1. For the last time - I never mentioned anything about a 25 mile range...so I should not be the designated policeman on that issue. You don’t like it...well, you’ll just continue to not like it.
2. You...yes YOU...brought up a bogus 6 hour charging time for the 120V.
3. You...yes YOU...brought up a bogus 3 hour claim on the fast charger.
4. My original post, which listed the 10 hour charge time (parenthetically the charge time listed on the Volt website, and most commonly experienced by Volt owners) was about the stupidity of burning 9 lb of coal to get the equivalent of one gallon of gas. The actual charge time is a tangential issue. You...yep YOU started a discussion about charge times. And guess what, YOU posted BOGUS, FALSE, INCORRECT, information, from an OLD press release, which must have been stored in your Favorites.
5. I can not help it if YOU were wrong. If you don’t like it, well see item No. 1.
6. What color is your Volt?
I read an article posted that put the Volt in perspective; it’s 175kg battery pack holds the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline.
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