Obama continues ban on importation of 600,000 historical, collectible M1 Carbine rifles;

Buckeye Firerams Association ^ | 31 January, 2012 | Chad D. Baus

[marktwain]

The Korea Times is reporting that while it has will allow 86,000 historical M1 Garand rifles to be imported from South Korea, the Obama administration continues to block the importation of some 600,000 M1 Carbines because "they come with a magazine that can carry multiple rounds."

From the article:

Washington has agreed to allow the importation of M1 Garand rifles from Seoul, reversing its earlier decision to ban the shipping of the weapon used by South Korean and U.S. soldiers during the 1950-53 Korean War, a senior defense official said Wednesday.

"The U.S. government approved the imports of some 86,000 of the rifles," said Lee Sun-chul, deputy defense minister for force and resources management.

"The historic firearms are expected to be sold to American Korean War veterans and their families in time for the 62nd anniversary of the Korean War, which falls on June 25 this year."

Kim Mi-sung, an official of the force and resources management office, said the defense ministry received an approval letter from the United States on Sept. 2 last year that stated Washington agreed to allow the importation of the M1s.

She noted that the U.S. government, however, rejected Seoul’s proposal to export some 600,000 M1 Carbines, which were also used in the Korean War, as they come with a magazine that can carry multiple rounds unlike the Garands.

This latest development comes more than 16 months after Fox News first reported that Obama had banned the importation of the vintage, collectible rifles. At the time, a State Department spokesman told reporters the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could "potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes."

When the ban was first announced, Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said "guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

Ironically, the "firepower," as Henigan calls it, of the M1 Garand, which is chambered in .30-06 Springfield, is far stronger than that of the reduced-power .30 caliber cartridge used in the banned M1 Carbine. But in the ignorant world of the Brady Campaign, a multiple-round magazine filled with what a postwar U.S. Army evaluation concluded was an ineffective cartridge is to be feared more than a cartridge that was developed for when shots of 1000 yards were expected, and which was heavily used by military snipers.

Again, from The Korea Times:

In February last year, U.S. Sen. Jon Tester and Rep. Cynthia Lummis proposed bills for an amendment of the Arms Export Control Act to guarantee that U.S.-made military firearms classified as "curios and relics" will not be blocked from importation.

The legislations allow firearms more than 50 years old, considered antiques or relics and lawfully possessed by a foreign government, to be imported into the United States through properly licensed groups and sold without written permission from the U.S. State or Defense Departments.

Although the Garands have received tentative approval, the article goes on to say a senior defense ministry official raised the possibility that the U.S. government may cancel the plan to allow the purchase the M1s, saying Seoul has yet to finalize negotiations with Washington.

"We have yet to receive confirmation from the United States over our proposal," he said. "The U.S. government may change its position at the last minute due to political considerations."

Chad D. Baus is the Buckeye Firearms Association Vice Chairman.

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[LibLieSlayer]

I would buy one of the “real deal” M1’s. I would love to have one. mitt and obama will see to it that we lose the Second and maybe our lives. One is white... one is black... both have black souls... there is no difference once you get below the epidermal layers.

LLS

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

The magazine in an M1 Garand is inside the rifle. The rounds are held together by a clip which is inserted down into the magazine. When the last round is fired, the clip is ejected...emitting the infamous Garand 'ping'.

Interesting note:
In WWII, many German infantry learned that this 'ping' was the sound made by an empty Garand when the clip hit the ground. They would hear this ping and pop up and commence fire on the source of the sound. The US GIs learned this pretty quickly so they carried an extra supply of clips so when they were only half empty they'd toss a clip, wait for the German infantry man to pop up and then shoot him. Kinda like the game Whack-a-Mole.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

It’s ugly when they turn on their owner.

Brings to mind the famous "Smith & Wesson Gun-Cam™".

Smith & Wesson Gun-Cam™

[Gilbo_3]

I wonder how hard it would be to control a weapon firing .30-06 rounds at a high rate

whats to wonder...the M1 and the BAR were used by 'avg' soldiers for years...no tripod required...

not that it makes your, or my, shoulders feel any better... 8^}

[Beckwith]

If Obama DID let the Garands into the country, Holder would just ship them all to the Mexican cartels.

[Drill Thrawl]

"No President can ban guns: only Congress can make laws and the Supreme Court ..."

A lot you know. Obama can and does whatever he wants. No one stops him or even tries.

Get with the program Citizen and do not question the validity of your betters.

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

“A magazine is what is used to feed the weapon itself, whereas a clip is used to feed the magazine. Clips make loading of magazines much easier and faster, and in some cases, a clip is required in order for the magazine to work (e.g. M1 Garand).”

A clip is a clip is a clip, but not all clips are the same. In the old days (WWI) rifles were built with magazines as part of the rifle's action. They were built into a box like chamber with a spring and a metal follower to press fresh ammunition upward with each cycle of the manual bolt. The Springfield, Lee-Enfield, and Mauser which differed in detail design all utilized an internal box magazine of anywhere between 5 to 10 rounds. Reloading, with the bolt fully open, was accomplished by placing a "stripper clip" into a notched guide machined into the ejection port of the rifle and pressing down on the cartridges, stripping them from the clip into the magazine. Removing the empty clip and closing the bolt completed the reload. This provided a great increase in speed when loading a rifles magazine as opposed to manually loading one round at a time.

Most "clips" in use today are used to feed ammunition into a detachable magazine (through some kind of adapter device). They are stilled called "stripper clips" because they allow ammunition to be carried and loaded (stripped off the clip) into a weapon's detached magazine, preloading it for subsequent use.

The M1 Garand used a unique type clip which is not used in any production rifle today. The Garand clip is referred to as an "en bloc" clip and it holds eight rounds together, the entire loaded clip is inserted into the M1 Garand's action. This allows for rapid reloads of eight rounds at a time and makes for easier carrying of clips in a bandoleer. The downside of the en bloc idea came with the last shot as the expended cartridge and clip were both ejected from the rifle leaving it ready for a reload of eight more rounds. The older bolt actions could be "topped off" during a lull with loose rounds without running them completely empty. The more critical problem was a very distinctive PING when the sheet metal clip was ejected. Enemy combatants eventually learned that when they heard that PING, you were holding an empty rifle and were temporarily out of the fight while reloading. Hopefully your buddies were still covering you and all went well however if you heard two or three PINGs closely spaced, your position could count on greatly increased incoming fire. The PING was a "tell" rather like the CLACK from an AK-47s safety. Sometimes your life hangs on exceedingly frail threads...

Regards,
GtG

[TigersEye]

It should be clear by now that 0bama’s white half hates black people and his black half hates white people.

[2CAVTrooper]

“I’ve only seen them loaded using M1 en bloc clips which hold 8 rounds. These clips remain in the magazine until the last shot is fired, then are automatically ejected.”

Ejected with a loud “ping!” to advertise that you’re out of ammo to all within earshot.

[stevie_d_64]

“Yer gonna put yer eye out with that!!!”

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

(1) Ruger makes, or used to, a Blackhawk model revolver in .30 cal carbine. Fun little round to shoot. Kinda like an up scaled .22LR

I own an AMT AutoMag III in .30 Carbine. You need long fingers to get a good grip on it as the magazine is just about the biggest box magazine I've ever seen in a pistol. While the .30 M1 Carbine isn't much of a rifle cartridge (.30-30 Winchester??) it is a lot of fun in a 6.5" barreled pistol. The slow rifle powder and short barrel make for an impressive muzzle flash when fired at twilight. It looks a bit like those old newsreels when the Battle Ships fired off a broadside. Ear plugs and Mickey Mouse Muffs are a good idea as otherwise it sounds like somebody put a bucket over your head and hit it with a length of pipe.

My longslide from hell!

Anybody know where I can get some .30 M1 Carbine Ammo in something other then FMJ?

Regards,
GtG

[Condor51]

You got it. That's what they're afraid of.

But when the new POTUS, Newt, repeals Barry's EO and allows the import of the Carbines I'm going to snatch up one or two with my C&R License.

Right now an M1 Carbine is going for approx $1200 on Gun Broker (I did a quick check before.) With my C&R I'll be able to get them cheaper, basically wholesale + shipping, for being a 'Licensed Collector'. My guess would be +/- $500 for Excellent Condition w/ shiny bore.
(that C&R is worth every penny of the $30 cost every 3 years)

I luv the BATF.
;-)

[org.whodat]

I don't know one of my contenders has a 10 inch 30 30 barrel. LOL, I did forget I also have a plain field carbine, had a lot of fun with the dang thing.

[xone]

While the .30 M1 Carbine isn't much of a rifle cartridge (.30-30 Winchester??)

The .30 M1 carbine round would love to have the power of the thutty thutty. Not even close! With the LeveRevolution ammo the thutty thutty is a 265 yd deerslayer when sighted 3 " high at 100 yds. Fist sized exit holes with some of the heavier older type ammo at 100 yds.

[therut]

I have my Father’s carbine that he was issued by the National Guard. Back in the days when most men served some time in the guard.

[Rebelbase]

For posterity:

David Marshall Williams
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Marshall_Williams

[SampleMan]

.30-30 huh. OK you win.

[RipSawyer]

The M-1 Garand has a fixed internal magazine, it is normally loading by inserting a “stripper” clip which holds 8 rounds. This is pushed down and then the hand must be jerked away quickly because the bolt automatically slams shut and can take the end of your thumb off. The first round loads when the bolt closes and when the 8th round is fired the stripper clip ejects automatically and in combat it would be left where it fell, the bolt remains open until another clip is inserted. In civilian use the stripper clip can be reused.

The M-1 carbine has a removable magazine much like you might find on a semi-auto hunting rifle. It is common for people to refer to the removable magazine as a clip but this is careless usage of terms.

[Constitution Day]

There is a very cool exhibit in the NC Museum of History on Carbine Williams. Have you ever seen it?

His entire workshop is in there, old machine tools and all.

[Condor51]

*** I own an AMT AutoMag III in .30 Carbine. You need long fingers to get a good grip on it ***

Wow, no kidding. That sure looks like a long distance from trigger to back of grip ('deep'). I don't think my 'average' size hands would fit ;-). An aside: When I looked at your pic it reminded me a lot of the CZ-52 (7.62x25 Tokarev), another 'deep grip' handgun.

As to other types of .30cal Carbine ammo besides FMJ , I found something you may like at Sportsman'sGuide: Winchester Super X, Stock No. 13981, .30 Carbine, 110gr, HSP (Hollow Soft Point), 50 round box, $47.77 (ouch!). The HSP must be rare (limited run) as the Win Super X, FMJ round goes for only $27.97 for a box of 50.

(Didn't check with CheaperThanDirt, that's were I buy all my ammo online)