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MILTARY: Marine Corps Knew It Faced Long Odds in Wuterich Prosecution (Haditha)
North County Times ^ | January 28, 2012 | Mark Walker

Posted on 01/28/2012 10:05:54 PM PST by Lancey Howard

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To: Psalm 144
Look at the vile career of Janet Reno as an example.

It is my belief that Reno was simply the phony face of the Wizard of Oz. It was the man behind the curtain, the corrupt-to-the-core Assistant Atty General Eric Holder, who pulled most of the strings in that justice department.


21 posted on 01/28/2012 11:07:13 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Lancey - Go look up the Nazario trial on Red's site; you will find the following I commented on earlier:

It brought out the FACT that the ROE was changed, especially those pertaining to houses declared 'hostile'. Lt. Kallop testified he did that in ordering the team to respond. That ROE was not changed until AFTER Haditha, as a tesult of the propaganda coupe wielded by McGirk and his enablers.

I too wish SSgt. Wuterich had not taken the plea, but then I am not in his shoes or consider it a fault on his part. I do know I will no longer counsel anyone to join our military, as there is no longer any guarantee of the governments claims and promises. Sad.

22 posted on 01/28/2012 11:19:20 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: DesertRhino

It is a damn damn shame.


23 posted on 01/28/2012 11:20:48 PM PST by onona (Dicky Betts is one ramblin man !)
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To: Navy Patriot

Yep, Wuterich was convinted of a “word crime”, which would be a form of “thought crime”.


24 posted on 01/29/2012 3:01:01 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: Lancey Howard

How did this happen? That fat swine surrender murtha the EX Marine - that’s how!
Semper Fi Sgt. Wuterich


25 posted on 01/29/2012 4:32:56 AM PST by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: DesertRhino
"He would have been happy to throw them in a cell beside Ramos and Campeon."
Don't even go there. The Marines were doing their jobs. These two committed crimes, attempted to cover them up (another crime) and were rightfully sent to prison.
26 posted on 01/29/2012 4:44:05 AM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: joe fonebone

If you believe the testimony of a drug smuggler.


27 posted on 01/29/2012 5:00:17 AM PST by BOBWADE
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To: BOBWADE

and their supervisor, who assisted in the cover up, and the word of other agents who knew about it.... gotta read the whole story, I did..... abusing your authority as a federal agent should land your butt in jail.... and for these two, it did


28 posted on 01/29/2012 5:09:22 AM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: joe fonebone

All’s fair in love & war. I don’t care what our soldiers do when in battle. Let them piss on all of those ingrates.


29 posted on 01/29/2012 6:22:12 AM PST by FES0844
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To: Lancey Howard
The Marine Corps forbids its prosecutors from commenting, so their explanation for why they pursued the case remains shrouded.

Shrouded? It is because of a policy of appeasement. "Winning their hearts and minds". With money.

In a country and a people we owe not one GDed thing to.

The Progressives think the world is ready for their liberal socialism/communism--The New World Order. And they push it in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. Places that haven't changed socially or ideologically for centuries.

It is a total epic failure.

And they think Americans will abandon their Conservative roots and traditions and meekly follow along.

They can wish in one hand and sh!+ in the other.

30 posted on 01/29/2012 7:48:06 AM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Lancey Howard
LtCol Ware's report and recommendation after the SSgt Wuterich Article 32 hearing runs 37 pages in pdf. (Link below)

From Ware's conclusion at the end of the report, it's clear the prosecution knew full well that the dereliction charge was all they had, and even that was dicey.

...........

"I am recommending that the Government pursue the lesser offense of negligent homicide and not murder because I believe after reviewing all the evidence, no trier of fact can conclude SSgt. Wuterich formed the criminal intent to kill. The evidence is contradictory, the forensic analysis is limited and almost all witnesses have an obvious bias or prejudice. The case against SSgt. Wuterich that he committed murder is simply not strong enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. What the evidence does point to is that SSgt. Wuterich failed to exercise due care in his own actions or in supervising his Marines. When a Marine fails to exercise due care in a combat environment resulting in the death of innocents, the charge of negligent homicide, not murder, is the appropriate offense. Accordingly I believe the elements and theory of negligent homicide best fits the evidence of what occurred inside House 2."

"Finally, although I believe the Government will fail to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that SSgt. Wuterich committed any offenses other than dereliction of duty, due to the serious nature of the charges, I recommend referral to a general court-martial."

Art_32_Report_ICO_Wuterich.pdf

31 posted on 01/29/2012 8:43:42 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Lancey Howard

Lancey, I posted a link to this thread on the Wuterich Master Thread.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2827761/posts?page=442#442


32 posted on 01/29/2012 8:46:32 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Lancey Howard

Not sure—just don’t know enough about the UCMJ—thank God.


33 posted on 01/29/2012 9:10:19 AM PST by RedRover
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To: smoothsailing; Lancey Howard; jazusamo; darrylsharratt; All
At the end of his article, Mark Walker quotes from a piece by Major Dinsmore posted first on DOM, Final Words from a Haditha Marine

I posted it on DOM, but not FR, because I didn't fights to start breaking out. But I thought I'd link it here and also a response I received from Bob Weimann (which I'll publish later today on DOM. Bob's piece starts below the line...

----------------------------

As Marines, SSgt Frank Wuterich's Haditha Court Martial tears at our souls. If asked; "is SSgt Frank Wuterich any less of a Marine in your eyes?" I suspect most Marines would answer with a strong; "No!"

I personally think SSgt Wuterich is a hero. Other Marines can say that he did not fight to the end, not only for his own honor but also for the honor of the other accused Marines. Like those Marines, I also would have preferred that SSgt Wuterich continue to fight for a not guilty declaration. Those two feelings are the basic elements that cause conflict in our Marine psyche and ethos.

The Marine Corps senior leadership threw everything they had at this Marine and with those actions they compromised the loyalty and responsibility that they owe to all who serve and call themselves Marines. SSgt Wuterich held his post under tremendous pressure for over six years. For the last two years, he was basically alone in his legal foxhole without his leaders and fellow comrades. Folks like the defendourmarines crew and readers provided what support we could but it is not the same as fighting shoulder to shoulder in the same crucible. Our legal system is based on the rights of the individual and therefore, it forces the accused to stand alone. Six years is an amazing amount of time when you realize that the Haditha incident lasted longer then World War II.

In my opinion, the Marine Corps leadership, at its highest levels, bears the most responsibility for this mess. Instead of using their often touted leadership skills, the generals deferred to their political cronies and lawyers. It pains me tremendously to make that statement because, besides being a retired Marine, Dad is a retired Marine Sgt Major. I was born on Quantico making the "Cross roads of the Marine Corps" my home town. My brother was a Marine and we both served together in Desert Storm. I was married in the Quantico Chapel and Dad is buried at the Quantico National Cemetery next to the Marine Corps Museum. Marine Corps pride and honor is part of me.

I believe LtCol Chessani, Major McConnell, 1stLt Grayson, LCpl Sharratt, LCpl Tatum, and Capt Stone have demonstrated the leadership and courage that exceeds any definition of valor. I would also include Major Jeffery Dinsmore in that group. He is also a hero and as a Marine he humbles me. I can comfortable saying I know how the Major feels. I have been wrestling with those same feelings since the announcement of the court martial deal. The SSgt's decision and Major Dinsmore's feelings that the SSgt should have continued to fight represents that inner conflict in our Marine soul that, no matter which way we turn, it leaves no peace. The smart folks would call it cognitive dissonance. The conflict between the loyalty and honor, taught and instill in us by the Marine Corps, and a piece bad generalship is its basic essence that tears and eats at our hearts.

As Marines, we are taught that leadership is getting the right people to do the right thing for the right reason in the right way. In the tactical combat case of 3/1 in Haditha, the Marine Corps senior leadership succeeded; they provided a well trained Marine Battalion that took a city back from a terrorist organization and returned it to its people with honor and bravery. However, in the strategic political arena, the Marine Corps senior leadership failed miserably.

The Haditha case is not about the SSgt's personal decisions; it is about failed leadership at the highest levels of the Marine Corps. Instead of following the examples of Marine General Officers like Waller, Vandergrift, Shoup, and Puller, the leadership followed a bad politician and a former Marine officer without honor. In my mind that brings the Marine Corps senior leadership's moral courage into question.

The other issue is this extends pass the Marine Corps and includes the highest leadership of DOD. This country now has the "Leavenworth 10" and the "10" could have easily become the Leavenworth 11, if SSgt Wuterich was conviction. These 10 Soldiers and Marines are serving sentences in Leavenworth Federal Prison for killing enemy combatants. They are serving substantially longer sentences then LT Calley from Viet Nam's My Lai Case. Calley was convicted of killing 22 civilians in a massacre of a possible 400 to 500 victims and he served three years in his BOQ room. This country's strategic war fighting leadership has turn from its warrior's ethos and instead, embraced political leadership in the worst way and our Marines and Soldiers are paying the price.

At the end of Viet Nam, the Marine Corps prosecuted a "war crime" court martial where the leader of a five Marine "kill team" accused of murder was acquitted and found not guilty at court martial. As the Marine's defense team was celebrating, they received a call from the senior member of the court martial board, a Marine Colonel. This Marine leader stated to the defense lawyers: "I'm not going to tell you how we voted, but I?ll tell you this: if we send the little sons of bitches out there, then we sure as hell have to take care of them." As both the Iraq and Afghanistan War have progressed, our leadership has lost that attitude and our generals are no longer taking care of our Marines and Soldiers.

Semper Fi,

Bob Weimann USMC Ret.

34 posted on 01/29/2012 9:56:45 AM PST by RedRover
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To: Lancey Howard
I was unaware that SSgt Wuterich’s attorney's had presented a plea deal twice in the two years prior to this CM.

I was aware of Lt. Col. Ware's finding and comments at the close of the Article 32 hearing and could not understand why he recommended the case proceeding to CM other than the fact he'd gotten word from the CA to proceed, it was evident these prosecutions were mired in politics.

Thanks for the ping, Lancey.

35 posted on 01/29/2012 10:08:25 AM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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To: twister881; All
now the SecNav has announced a new ship is going to be named after the scum

Here's a site trying to stop that ship from being named for the corrupt Murtha.

NO MURTHA SHIP

36 posted on 01/29/2012 10:15:21 AM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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To: RedRover; smoothsailing; Lancey Howard; darrylsharratt; All

Outstanding piece by retired Lt. Col. Bob Weimann, USMC.

Semper Fi


37 posted on 01/29/2012 10:34:18 AM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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To: RedRover; Lancey Howard; jazusamo; darrylsharratt; polarbear1605
The Haditha case is not about the SSgt's personal decisions; it is about failed leadership at the highest levels of the Marine Corps. Instead of following the examples of Marine General Officers like Waller, Vandergrift, Shoup, and Puller, the leadership followed a bad politician and a former Marine officer without honor. In my mind that brings the Marine Corps senior leadership's moral courage into question.

Well, there you have it. This is what it was always about.

Well said, LtCol Weimann.

38 posted on 01/29/2012 11:02:01 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: jazusamo
I was unaware that SSgt Wuterich’s attorney's had presented a plea deal twice in the two years prior to this CM.

Yeah, it almsot looks like - - while we here at FR were shooting for the full exoneration Frank Wuterich deserved - - his attorneys were playing a game of chicken with the scumbag prosecutors for the purpose of seeing if it would be "willful" or "negligent" derilection of duty at the end. Whew.

I cannot believe a panel of Marine combat veterans would have convicted Frank of anything, especially after seeing the embarrassed prosecutors flop around like helpless flounders as their own witnesses turned into defense witnesses. Then the trial delay... Then the "deal"... I dunno. It looked to me like the defense team decided to grab defeat from the jaws of victory. And unless the fix was in and everybody knew it, I maintain what I posted last week, that Frank's lawyers stunk the place up. They did not serve Frank well. They sucked.

39 posted on 01/29/2012 3:34:50 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: smoothsailing

Thank you, BOB, YOU got it right!!


40 posted on 01/29/2012 10:26:25 PM PST by Semper Fi Mom (Mother of a Marine and proud of it! (www.WeSupport Frank.com))
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