Posted on 12/10/2011 9:40:02 AM PST by Scanian
JERUSALEM - Palestinian officials are reacting with dismay to Republican presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich's statement that they are an "invented" people.
The Jewish Channel on Friday released excerpts of an interview in which the former House Speaker said Palestinians were not a people because - unlike Israelis - they never had a state.
"Remember, there was no Palestine as a state," Gingrich said. "It was part of the Ottoman Empire.
"I think we have invented the Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs and who are historically part of the Arab community, and they had a chance to go to many places, and for a variety of political reasons, we have sustained this war against Israel now since the 1940s. It's tragic."
Palestinian official Nabil Abu Rdeneh on Saturday described Gingrich's comments as "unfortunate" and called him "ignorant".
The Palestinian prime minister, Salam Fayyad, demanded Gingrich "review history."
"From the beginning, our people have been determined to stay on their land," Fayyad said in comments carried by the Palestinian news agency Wafa. "This, certainly, is denying historical truths."
(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...
I’m not going to bother to reseach it now but my Jewish friends used to tell me that the local Arab shieks panicked the Palis of that time people into fleeing from the Jews.
It’s heartening to me to find out that I share the same level of ignorance with a PhD and potential presidential candidate like Gingrich.
If the Palis are smart and educated, I’m glad to be dumb and illiterate.
“I think we have invented the Palestinian people”
He’d better not walk back that assertion.
If he does, he can kiss my primary vote goodbye.
Wouldn't that be true of Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon as well?
[ If the Palis were smart, they’d have continued calling themselves “Amalekites” as some of them did some years ago. ]
There are not any of them either..
Old Sarge slams Palestinians as Terrorists.
Funny thing, oil and the wealth associated with it got in the way of all of the Palestinian Mandate becoming the nation of Israel.;
Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia had Saudi Princes placed at their heads.;
Trans-Jordan was created by the British, in disregard of the League of Nations and the Balfour Agreement. This occupied two thirds of the Palestinian Mandate (meant for a Jewish Homeland) and became the first Palestinian Arab state. A Saudi Prince was placed in control of this new nation. Prior to this the Jews were then promised that if they would move west across the Jordan,from the areas they had settled between the late 19th century and early 20th century, that what remained of the Palestinian Mandate, including what has become known as the West Bank would be reserved for them as a homeland.;
Then the Arab states, so created, started badgering Great Britain to not allow Jews to ever control any of the Muslim land. Jews from the middle of the 19th century until 1948 had paid dearly for land (at very high prices), in order to move back into the vacated area (Ottoman controlled) Palestine. The land had been stripped bare by its absentee Muslim landlords (Ottoman Empire). Read Innocents Abroad by Samuel Clemons for a description;
So, prior to WWI all of the Arab states did not exist. They were part of the Caliph run by Turkey. Of course the Turks had destroyed their own group with a claim to land in Turkey (the Armenians).;
Strange the West can't see the destruction of the Armenians in the same light as the attempt to destroy the Jews. After all the Armenians were Christian and could not exist in a Muslim state. So the solution was to destroy them. Now we see the same attitude by Muslim states toward Israel. All land previously conquered by Islam, must be returned to Islam. All land not previously conquered by Islam is up for grabs and should be conquered and subjugated.
Then does that mean that there is no such thing as a Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian, Saudi, or Iraqi?
At least it’s a Biblical name....even “Philistines” would give them some kind of argument, though the Phillies were early Greeks.
At least it’s a Biblical name....even “Philistines” would give them some kind of argument, though the Phillies were early Greeks.
There is some interesting stuff in the Wiki article about Amalekites.
For instance:
Nazis as Amalekites
“Davidster” (Star of David) by Dick Stins is a World War II memorial in The Hague. The text at the side (in Dutch and Hebrew) is from Deuteronomy 25:17,19 - “Remember what Amalek has done to you...do not forget.”The Nazis and Adolf Hitler have been referred to as Amalekites.[9]
A prominent 19th and early 20th century rabbi, Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, claimed upon Kaiser Wilhelm’s visit to Palestine in 1898, three decades before Hitler’s rise to power, he had a tradition from his teachers that the Germans are descended from the ancient Amalekites.[10]
Samuel’s words to Agag: “As your sword bereaved women, so will your mother be bereaved among women.” (Samuel 1:15:33) were quoted by Israeli President Itzhak Ben-Zvi in his handwriting in response to a telegram sent by Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann’s wife pleading for clemency after he was taken to Israel and sentenced to death.[11][12]
True.. I have always thought that Pali’s should really be Phillies..
But looking at the mentality of the Pali’s they don’t even know there WERE phillies..
But the Phillies would have murdered ALL Islamese.. both Suni’s and SHiites.. for their camels..
The only entity that could be called a Palestinian state (created so far) is Trans-Jordan, which changed its name to Jordan after occupying what is now known as the West Bank..;
So yes there is a two state solution. Jordan is the Arab Palestinian state, and Israel is the Jewish state. The borders have not been finalized, because of the belief of Muslim states that nothing but a Muslim state can be established in the Middle East. What ever was Muslim must remain Muslim, and what ever else exists must be conquered and become Muslim..;
Turkey lost WWI and had to give up her empire. I know personally a gentleman who is 101 years old and was a witness to all of this. He remembers when the British Empire was at its peak, prior to WWI. The others Arab countries were created by Britain just as Saudi Arabia was created after WWI. Remember that all countries have created themselves and their borders as the result of wars..;
Sometimes (even during the 20th century)new countries arise, with new borders. Just look at the continent of Africa, and the former Soviet Union..;
Usually there is a common language and common customs that define a nation..;
Strange that there are Muslim states, Arab states (57 of them), but no where in the Muslim mindset should there ever be a Jewish state, where Jewsih people can gather with their own government, The fact that the world won't face is that in the Muslim. mindset there is the world of peace (Islam) and the world of war (all land not conquered and occupied by Islam). They constantly tell the world this through their spokesmen, but the leftist media and socialist governments ignore their statements and treat them as inconsequential..;
The Japanese, who worshiped the Emperor as a god went out to conquer, were driven back and now occupy their home islands. The French went out to conquer the world and were driven back to their home country. The British went out to conquer the world and now occupy only a fraction of what was included in their empire. The Germans tried to establish the Third Reich, but then were occupied and only recently re-united..;
The Muslim who worship allah (the ancient moon god)went out to conquer the world and were stopped, but only temporarily per their belief. they look forward and demand that the world bow to their god and give up any idea of self governance or freedom. Islam means submission, and they demand that the world submit.
I believe that Daniel refers to these people when he states, "The people of the ruler who will come" will destroy Israel." when talking about the Antichrist. The Antichrist arising in the last days from the Arabs.
It’s a made up people ... just as “real” as Kwanzaa ... ask Obama, he’ll tell ya.
My my reckoning, “Barack Hussein Obama”(mmm mmm mmm )is a made up person.
Who the real one is is yet to be determined.
This is the problem with Gingrich. When he takes positions that undermine conservatives I hate him. However, when he makes clear historically accurate statements like he did about the made up "palestinians" I love him. If he's our nominee I will vote for him and probably send him money.
The comment he made about Israel and the Philistines (that's who the palestinians really are) is a big time winner for him. Pubs have very little hope of getting the Arab vote, but they might pick up some of the less liberal Jewish vote. Even more important than the votes the discussion will serve to educate some people to the reality of the middle east.
Every polity is a fiction created to organize a group of people within a geographic area. However, in most cases, nation-states or their underlying claims to nationality are the product of the development of a national culture over a long period of time, including common language, history, religion, aspiration, outlook, mores, art and so on. Moreover, it is an organic product, emerging from the cultural petri dish in a given geographic area.
You will not find these characteristics in the “Palestinian” claim. To begin with, there has not been a long-standing, recognizable group of people identifying themselves with the land of Israel, except, of course for the Jews. The pre-Israel Arab population was dominated by 2 cohorts: One, town and village dwellers who defined themselves nationally, if at all, as subjects of the Ottoman empire and religiously, culturally and ethnically as Arab, primarily muslim. It is noteworthy that many of these people were actually tenant farmers, while their landlords were often absentees preferring the major cities of Turkey, Syria and Lebanon. These tenant farmers were often quite transitory and developed little attachment to the land as their own, moving from place to place as conditions warranted: drought, rents, food prices. Two, nomadic folk, like Bedouins and other tribal Arabs, who not only did not see themselves as “Palestinians”, but probably rejected any notion of belonging to a geographically defined “nationality”, including the Ottoman empire. In both cases, the populations were historically very small as can be attested from numerous sources, most famously Mark Twain in “Innocents Abroad”. Written just 80 years before the founding of the state of Israel, Twain’s pilgrimage account describes a land appallingly desolate and depopulated. Likewise, in both cases, you will not find a shred of evidence that they thought of themselves as “palestinians”.
If you attempt to go further back in time, you find no evidence at all that there was any homogeneous constant settlement in the land, except for the pitifully poor and oft persecuted Jewish communities which stayed on throughout the centuries going back to the days of the Temple.
In sum, you do not have the historical context of a single, defined population organically evolving into a common culture and sharing a particular attachment to the land. It was only with the rise of Jewish migration to Israel that brought a steady flow of arabs into Israel, seeking the markets and job opportunities created by vibrant Jewish development.
Invention in the Palestinian sense also differs from organic nationalities in another vital way: You may scour newspapers and other media sources for the period up to the early 1960’s and you will not find a hint of an Arab Palestinian claim or aspiration. Arabs rioting and slaughtering Jews in the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s did not raise a single banner emblazoned with a nascent Palestinian flag or other symbol of a desire for Palestinian self-determination, nor were such claims heard in protest chants or preached in mosques or written in editorials. The only point the Arabs were making was they wanted no Jews. Period.
It was after Yassir Arafat (may his name be blotted from the memory of mankind) received his Politburo and KGB training that the idea of claiming nationhood was introduced. As the Soviets well understood, useful Western idiots could be relied upon to fall prey to misty claims of “self-determination” accompanied with the pathetic plight of the refugees who just wanted to return to their homeland.
Gingrich is absolutely right (on this) and it is stunning to hear a major American politician actually tell the truth on this subject today.
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