Posted on 12/07/2011 7:00:50 AM PST by SeekAndFind
It's one thing to claim that nameless, faceless government bureaucrats are overpaid. It's quite another to argue, as Jason Richwine of the Heritage Foundation and I recently have, that public school teachers are overpaid by more than 50 percent. This is real money, costing state and local governments over $100 billion annually. Our study generated significant, sometimes hysterical, pushback. But our conclusions still stand, and deliver important lessons regarding education financing and reform.
The claim that teachers are underpaid rests on a single isolated fact: that on average, public school teachers receive salaries about 19 percent less than private sector workers with bachelor's or master's degrees. But it's really not that simple. Here are eight reasons why.
1. All bachelor's degrees aren't the same. No one's surprised when a physics or finance major earns more than the person who studied medieval poetry, even if both graduate from the same college. Likewise, Education is widely held to be a less rigorous course of study, attracting below-average students but awarding the highest average GPAs of any college major. Easy grading both discourages hard work and makes it tough for schools to separate the good prospective teachers from the not-so-good ones. Prospective teachers enter college with SAT scores around the 40th percentile - meaning that about 60 percent of test-takers received higher scores - so it shouldn't be surprising if teachers' salaries after graduation salaries are around the 40th percentile as well.
2. That master's degree may not be worth much either. Many teachers have master's degrees but, as the Center for Educator Compensation Reform summarized the research, "The preponderance of evidence suggests that teachers who have completed graduate degrees are not significantly more effective at increasing student learning than those with no more than a bachelor's degree."
(Excerpt) Read more at realclearmarkets.com ...
Great tactics, poor strategy (sometimes). When Pennsylvania started the steady increase in teacher compensation all it did was delay the retirement of a lot of 'deadwood'. Tenure and Union Protection have to be dealt with at the same time. A series of nice pay raises my mother-in-law in the game way past her expiration date.
Administrators and teachers are like Dogs and Cats — they view eachother with suspicion. This is why conservative ideas about paying teachers for performance don’t gain any traction. Teachers don’t trust administrators not to play favorites. That’s almost a direct quote.
wow! you like to paint with a broad brush!
I’ve seen future administrators be groomed because they stand out from the rest.
I’ve seen teachers recommend fellow teachers for the jobs.
And so...just like there are many good teachers and some bad ones, so too - there are many good administrators and some bad ones.
And just as teachers despise many things about administrators...it doesn’t seem to occur to the teachers that the feeling is quite mutual.
Children in the sixties KNEW how to make change...now they can’t. Solution? Give teachers a raise...then our children will know how to make change again. Hallelujah!
Good point.
It’s unfair to those that actually do the WORK, to be ruled over by incompetent, power-hungry administrators.
That’s like saying; “I view socialists with suspicion.”
I’m not the problem. I work, and only eat what I kill.
Socialists are the problem... telling others what to do while they enjoy the fruits of others’ labors.
That’s what unions and administrators are.
THEY DESERVE being “viewed with suspicion” -
We conservatives are like the teachers here - we need to see this and harness this potential energy. The reason the unions and gubmit “views US with suspicion” is because united, we can take their power away.
Sorry about the brush. I know there are good ones. My HS geometry teacher moved into admin after 30 years of teaching, and she was one of the best. I loved her, and saw her in September - took a trip to the old stomp - she’s STILL full of vinegar.
My opinion is that those who love to teach will do it for as long as they can - not taking note of the encumbrances here (burn out/frustration).
The system is top-heavy with admins. Fine get rid of bad admins and teachers, I’m good with that.
But “the system” is RUN by unions, goons, and admins. The teachers are just cogs.
DISBAND the union.
Whittle out the bad admins and teachers.
Vouchers.
To me, teachers are always the ‘little guys’ in these discussions, and I wish conservatives would target the unions and admin bean-counters.
#1: I'm married to one and she has to support my lifestyle.
Well, they’re smart enough to have school board and school levy elections during the Spring. Just because they’re not very smart doesn’t mean that they’re not greedy.
” The tools for quality control are there, but they are not used by the responsible administrators.”
And what tools might these be?
If you don’t get rid of incompetents prior to tenure - or refuse to grant tenure to certain teachers - they pretty much have to assault a student or commit a crime to get fired.
” but in the trades and maintenance departments”
Oh - so you never had to fire a teacher. Ever see that manual?
“The solution in my opinion is simple; no District Administrator, up to and including the Superintendent of Schools should come from the educational system”
That’s easier said than done. While it would make good sense , perhaps, from a business/management aspect - you are asking people with no educational background to deal with state ed? deal with endless issues concerning the teachers & students, and parents?
Maybe the problem is with the higher educational institutions that are “training” the teachers and administrators in the first place.
“The system can be fixed; but the problems can not all be put off on the teachers, the biggest problems start at the administrative level.”
Even if you get your wish fulfilled - your “dream” administrators will still have deal with the unions, the budgets, and state ed.
recently - with the economic collapse of our state - and thus a collapse in state funding to schools - we have gotten to see a very ugly side to the unions and the teachers who support them.
Local administrators from all our local district are going on their 2nd and 3rd year of pay freezes.
As some administrators retire - their duties have been divided among the remaining with no increase in pay.
The teacher said - lead by example, we’ll follow.
Except they did not.
They’ve received their raises at the expense of the new hires and “could be” hires.
The reps don’t even tell their members what occurs during negotiations so as to better demonize administration when the deal is done.
It is always easy to demonize when you don’t have to sit in the chair and assume the responsiblity - or try to reconcile the math.
The level of animosity is discouraging and, quite frankly, disgusting.
These are just a few incidents. So yes, they do. And from different states.
In order to compare salaries with other fields of employment, you need to take the yearly salary and adjust it by the relative number of hours per year actually worked.
For example, I just looked up our school district board minutes. They're hiring a special-ed teacher with BS and 1 year experience for a little over $42K. Taking into account the actual number of educational days in the year (180 versus 250)means she should be compared to a private-sector employee making $59K, which is VERY good money for somebody just out of school.
And in my kids school district, the teachers are out the door and unavailable at the end of the 6 hour school day, versus minimum 8 hours in the regular world, making her salary compare to somebody making $78K.
My wife's friend is a special ed teacher, and to her base salary gets added quite a bit of $$$ for tutoring on the side after school and in the summer (for which she gets an hourly rate)
I would imagine because the ex-military applicants would be mostly male, and mostly conservative, entering an environment dominated by very liberal women.
When folks try to compare annual salaries, the number of days worked per year certainly matters.
Back in the 19th century, as depicted in contemporary literature like the "Little House on the Prairie" and "Anne of Green Gables", elementary-school teachers were generally young women. Lucy Maud Montgomery, for example, author of the Anne of Green Gables series, worked as a teacher. She got her teaching license after finishing a one year program in college (which was geared for two years, but I guess she was bright and energetic).
About 20 years ago I was a store manager for TJ MAxx (horrible job!!) and employed several teachers from 2 high schools in Newport News VA. All three were barely competent readers and none could count! I used to insist that my cashiers count back the change to their customers, out loud, to ensure a proper count. You wouldn’t believe the results! I would get notes from them requesting time off, or making schedule requests, etc and you would be amazed at the sentence structure, grammar and spelling...from High School teachers! It’s no wonder we have such a hard time graduating home grown engineers and scientists!
You're confusing new, probationary, teachers with union teachers with tenure. A unionized teacher with tenure is very hard to fire. A new teacher in her probationary period, or in a non-union environment that doesn't have tenure, is another story.
And I would guess that "wrong move" applies more to workplace politics and kissing up to the people who decide to retain you, than educational performance.
“The entire argument about how long a teacher works each year isn’t very relevant to overall argument of teacher worth”
Really? When compensation is figured wouldn’t the amount of time on the job be relevant? Goodness knows we don’t “peeve” anyone who teaches
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