Brevard County Sheriff's Office Raids Gun Conversion Manufacturer

newsbrevardtimes.com ^ | 3 Nov 2011 | unattributed

[smokingfrog]

First reported on BrevardTimes.com, the Brevard County Sheriff's Office raided a Cape Canaveral business located at 8700 Commerce Street at around 6:00 p.m. today.

Public records show that the business located at this address is that of Jonathan Arthur Ciener, Inc., a company that advertises gun conversion kits on www.22lrconversions.com.

On the Web, there appear to be several consumer complaints about www.22lrconversions.com.

Jonathan Arthur Ciener was arrested and charged with schemes to defraud less than $20,000, which is a third degree felony.

[TheOldLady]

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[Gandalf_The_Gray]

(compared to I was wondering why the kits weren't very accurate...But I discovered that the "average" twist rate on an AR-15 barrel is 1:9". The average twist rate on a .22 rimfire barrel is 1:16"!

Not that familiar w/ the Cienor AR-15 conversion but since you reference the AR barrel I'm assuming it uses some sort of chamber insert to provide a .22 LR chamber. That being said there will be a lot of smooth bore to travel before the .22 pill gets to the forcing cone in the actual chamber and engages the rifling of the AR barrel. My guess would be that that smooth bore portion in the chamber adapter is somewhat oversize compared to the groove diameter of a .22 LR barrel. This would permit some gas blowby and possibly allow the bullet to tip slightly and not engage the rifling in a repeatable manor.

If you are happy with what you have and having fun with a "plinker", god speed. However, if you want to bring up the accuracy and fix the barrel twist at the same time look around for a conversion kit that swaps out the upper receiver/barrel for one fitted with .22 LR barrel/bolt. It costs a bit more* but you gets what you pays for.

Don't forget to clean thoroughly after an afternoon plinking as .22 LR leaves a lot of unburned power behind and lead bullets will fowl up your good AR barrel.

Regards,
GtG

* A bit more being about what a "high end" .22 rifle would cost, but you get to practice more w/ your "badass" black rifle!

[Buffalo Head]

The rifling twist rate required to stabilize a bullet in flight is predominately dependent upon the bullets length, not it's weight.

The 1:16 inch twist in a 22 Long Rifle is excellent. The faster twists in most centerfire rifles are necessary for longer bullets.

The optimum twist for any firearm is the slowest that will just barely stabilize the bullet. Faster rotation simply magnifies a bullet's imperfections and causes inaccuracy.

For a learned dissertation of the subject, read the book, "The bullets flight from powder to target". For a quick and dirty formula to calculate the twist necessary to stabilize a given bullet, Google "Greenhill Formula".

[MHGinTN]

I’ve been using a CMMG stainless steel version to great satisfaction and problem free functioning. There is a third company making these, located I think in Huntsville, AL. They make an excellent product but it is not stainless steel. You can order directly from them and save about $30 bucks per unit.

[hiredhand]

Good points you've made there! In fact, the CMMG conversion kit that I have is indeed a smooth bore chamber that has a LOT of freebore! Aside from the bolt and rails and springs, it looks like a 5.56mm cartridge with a .22 rimfire chamber in it!...and yes it is a real mess maker! The rifle is just plain nasty after several hundred rounds, especially if it was already oily to start with.

I've learned that there are some good quality dedicated uppers available, and recently Armalite began producing one, but that upper is as much as the 5.56mm NATO upper!...arg!

The conversion kit is useful, cheap to shoot, and fun. :-) I'm not dissatisfied with it. :-) For the $150.00 (approx) I think it was a good bargain. :-)

[GlockThe Vote]

I have read comp.aunts about cieonor for years about his horrible service. Amazing it took this long. I was going to order a kit for my ak but his record is so bad I never ordered it.

[MHGinTN]

When I fire a few hundred rounds of .22 down my Bushmaster ultralite I end the day with two or three rounds of 5.56 IMI and then clean really good. The 5.56 cleans the gas line out well enough.

[hiredhand]

I’ve been using a CMMG stainless steel version to great satisfaction and problem free functioning. There is a third company making these, located I think in Huntsville, AL. They make an excellent product but it is not stainless steel. You can order directly from them and save about $30 bucks per unit.

I passed on the SS version and picked up the non-SS model. It's very reliable, except with Remington ammo. :-) We've noticed that several people have accidentally bump-fired the weapon though. Have you had this happen?... or noticed it was easier to bump fire? We're not into overheating weapons and weren't trying...it just happened.

IF you're interested, I'll post a photo of a PVC tube I modified for storing the CMMG bolt. After about a week of having it, we realized that IF somebody dropped it and bent the chamber end, it would probably not fare well. So I modified a PVC tube for storing it. The tube usually stores the CMMG bolt. But when the .22 RF bolt is in the rifle, the stock bolt goes into the tube. It makes it easier to keep track of pieces-parts. :-)

[GlockThe Vote]

I hacpve to try that. the rim fire is just dirty!

[MHGinTN]

My unit came in a tube with palstic caps. I wrapped the tube completely with electrical tape and taped on end shut. I stor the kit in the tube and the Carrier and bolt of the AR when using the .22 carrier/bolt. I don’t need to ‘bumpfire’ the conversion kit since I use it for practricing my sighting, targeting, and reload drills. If I want to just shoot .22 for a day of plinking I use a Ruger 1022 with hi cap mags. Did you know how easy those little Rugers are to make them full auto? There’s stuff on Youtube about it. Looks interesting, if we reach the SHTF scenario and lawlessness is the order of the day, I might convert one to have a movement suppressor.

[hiredhand]

Oh...so you GOT a tube with it! Ours didn't, so we made one! :-) We weren't trying to make the rifle bumpfire. I noticed it just now and again on a carbine that I have, but my wife fired about three rounds with every trigger pull on a full length AR-15. She noticed and asked WHAT the problem was and I told her to stop being "light" on the trigger and she corrected for it.

10/22?! No kidding!? I've got the compact version. It's the one with NO barrel band and it's quite a bit shorter. But the little sucker is very, VERY accurate! The 10/22 is a lot like the AR-15 when it comes to "accessories". There are LOTS out there to choose from. :-)

[MHGinTN]

Would love to see the PVC system you've devised. Always open to new and better systems. ;^) Here's a picture of a Ruger 1022 I 'worked on' to make it more a black rifle style usinf a shotgun collapsible stock with pistol grip ... it's the bottom one of the three; top one is a Mossberg Plinkster; middle one is a Marlin 795 in a draganov stock:

[Myrddin]

For a solid bullet in a fixed caliber, heavier is necessarily longer. There are exceptions like the hollow point, boat tail where the hollowed nose makes a lighter bullet longer, thus requiring a faster twist. I’ve read the article you referenced many years ago. It is well done. Reloading is my favorite hobby. An activity I’ve been denied for the past 4 years due to extensive time away from home.

[hiredhand]

Sure thing... I’ll see if I can locate the original photos I took of the tube. It “might” be tomorrow before I get around to it though... work schedule... bleh. :-) I like that 10/22. :-)

[hiredhand]

I couldn’t find any photos of that bolt tube I made, so I took some photos and posted them here -

http://1703.x.rootbsd.net/Bolt-Tube/

It’s pretty simple really... just section of 1.5” PVC tube with a cap glued on one end, and a screw seal on the other end. The bolt stays wrapped in a rag inside and it’s reasonably tight, but comes out if you shake the tube. It keeps it protected, and I “think” it’s watertight. I’ve read that it’s not a good idea to store steel long term in PVC because of off-gassing though, but it’s fine for what i use it for.

[MHGinTN]

Great idea! You must be a plumber to have that red rubber gasket cap around to use. If you toss a couple of dessicants from new boot boxes into the tube when you seal it, the bolt should be very well protected.

[hiredhand]

Now that you mention it, I do get roped into plumbing jobs fairly often. :-) I’ve had to repair enough drains to know that those red gasket caps were available and me and one of my boys marched our happy selves over to Lowes... took a bolt with us... and found that 1.5” PVC was close enough. I made two of them. One for the CMMG bolt, and one for a spare bolt that I have. I’ve been wondering if the storage tube will float and leak. I don’t think so because it’s pretty tight when sealed. But I haven’t tested it “yet”. :-) I’d like to devise a way to attach a small length of plastic cladded steel cable to the cap so it can’t get (easily) separated from the tube... but that’s another small project. :-)

[MHGinTN]

Did you consider using a glue on threaded end at one end and a screw on cap? HINT: it's a good ‘storage’ tube when done with six or eight inch green pipe for ‘larger items’. You can bury it with desiccants inside and know the contents are safe for future retrieval.

[hiredhand]

The closed end is a cap which is simply glued on... albeit WELL glued! I think if I were going to bury stuff, I'd use all plastic screw/seal caps sort of like the red one on this small thing I built. I'm talking about a cap that doesn't have the metal bolt and wing nut. It's ALL plastic. I "think" the metal threads would possibly leak after time. I've looked at the screw/seal cap on mine and I'm not convinced that moisture wouldn't wick down the threads. If a person were going to bury one, it would probably be wise to seal the threads of the screw/seal cap with RTV or some sort of "goop" like that. :-)

[MHGinTN]

Teflon tape on the threads is sufficient.