Posted on 11/02/2011 9:26:01 AM PDT by Kevmo
Andrea Rossi May Sell eCat Shares
admin on November 2, 2011 — 5 Comments
Andrea Rossi has always indicated that he would only use his own money until he was selling eCat products on the open market. It should be no surprise then that the possibility of opening up investment opportunities to the public looms now that the 1MW plant has shipped. Of course, without knowledge of the customer’s identity or verifiable scientific proof, any such venture at this time would be high risk. If you assume for now that the eCat is real, AR has money coming in the door (probably around 2m Euro a pop) and so some of the immediate financial pressure is relieved. Even so, the scale of his task is enormous. This would just be the start and we are told that it will be three months before the next delivery. Therefore, it is unlikely that he will be flush with cash for some time at least. It makes sense then, to consider raising money through the issue of public shares.
A serious businessman with a real product would not attempt to do so in the midst of uncertainty regarding the product. Doubt and suspicion will lower the value of such shares. For that reason, I would only expect such a move after the clouds obscuring the eCat have been lifted. As Dr Rossi hints on his blog, we may be seeing the seeds of exactly that.
Simon Basovich
November 1st, 2011 at 9:12 PM
Dear Mr. Andrea Rossi,
Congratulations on your outstanding success! Please, inform me how I could buy the shares of your company. I have many inventions, mostly related to biomedicine, and I have ideas how to increase mental capability, how to primary prevent mental diseases, how to get people healthy from the beginning of the life and some others. A lot of money is needed for realization, and in an attempt to promote it (partly, of course), I hope to buy the shares of your company.
Many thanks.
Best regards,
Simon Basovich,
Australia
Andrea Rossi
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:45 AM
Dear Simon Basovich: OK, Warm Regards, A.R.
Andrea Rossi
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:35 AM
Dear Francesco D.M.: We are just producing heat, so far. Probably we will sell shares to allow everybody to participate to this enterprise. But before this we have to consolidate our manufacturing and commercial system. Warm Regards, A.R.
I postulated in an earlier post that there were now so many people involved in AR’s project across too many organisations, that it would become increasingly difficult to keep secrets such as: Who is the customer? It seems that Dr Rossi agrees.
Andrea Rossi
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:40 AM
Dear Neil Ferguson: The names of Customers unavoidably will pop up, before or later. I agree with you. Warm Regards, A.R.
Andrea Rossi
October 31st, 2011 at 9:23 AM
Dear Luca Salvarani: 1- yes 2- more 3- I want not our Customers assailed by the puppetts moved by their puppetteers. Let the plant go to work, then they will reveal themselves automatically. Probably you did not understand that there is a war against us. Warm Regards, A.R
Finally, we have AR reiterate his hope/plan for the coming years.
Andrea Rossi
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:55 AM
Dear Paul Calvo: The price can drop to 500 $/kW if we will have to produce millions of pieces. Warm Regards, A.R.
Andrea Rossi
November 1st, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Dear Paolo: To be ready to sell household E-Cats we need from 1 to 2 years. Warm Regards, A.R.
We are not looking at a hit-and-run con-job but a long-term strategy that is cohesive and well thought out. To achieve the scale needed to produce millions of pieces will require money and confidence in the product. Right now, he is building that confidence even as the eCat starts to earn its keep. He knows that eventually we will learn who the customers are and it seems obvious to me that such knowledge would dispel many fears. All of this is being played out in a sea of commercial warfare, even if the battle is obscured for now.
Robert Mockan
October 31st, 2011 at 5:30 PM
Dear Mr. Rossi,
You have commented there “is a war” against you (your organization? your efforts to market the E-Cat?). Do you expect the successful sale of the megawatt demo module to stop the war, or is it going to get bigger?
Andrea Rossi
October 31st, 2011 at 5:45 PM
Dear Robert Mockan: Bigger. Warm Regards, A.R.
Thus, it makes sense to retain a certain mystique, making it difficult for competitors to gauge the truth or guess the technological details behind the eCat’s apparent success. To attract the money required, he has to own and protect the intellectual property:
Andrea Rossi
November 1st, 2011 at 3:29 AM
Dear lenr4you: Nobody would invest anything in a non proprietary technology. Warm Regards, A.R.
And yet, to sell the product and shares widely he has to take the risk of building confidence, of attracting an army of opponents alongside allies. It is a tough path to walk. Those who say he should have simply proven beyond doubt a year ago that the eCat was genuine do not consider that without handing it over to third parties for many months (with all the risks that entails) during which time he is in limbo, there is no test he could have done that would have satisfied the attackers. Indeed, I am certain that even that would have achieved little apart from arming his competitors. Instead, he is now bringing in money as interest is growing. He has kept ahead of everyone else by being shrewd as well as clever.
That said, he also knows that he cannot keep such a delicate balance going forever. A conman would want to sell you shares now while you are confused, an entrepreneur knows he will get more on delivering proof. To me, this all adds up. When we will know the truth is anyone’s guess.
I’m frightened to say it but I’ll guess anyway. Soon.
.
Then can we expect the detractors to be more polite? I thought not.
1) I would prefer to be someone who proves it works.
2) I know it doesn't work and never will.
3) I have no desire to attain some weird form of fame debunking this 'device'.
4) I don't want people to know who I am, I prefer anonymity.
5) Shelling out over $5k for a device I know is fake is foolishness. Sooner or later, it will end up in the hands of someone neutral who we hope will provide an accurate test.
You're so sure, you kick down the money and prove it works, fame and fortune await...
WW, you said, Enrico Fermi was able to determine the yield of the Trinity test to within 5%?? with just a stopwatch and confetti? ***Yes, that is the case. First of all, really, you’re mentioning Enrico Fermi and Rossi in the same breath? ***One brought us “death, the destroyer of worlds” and the other appears to have brought us a new energy source that would SAVE lives, not take them.
You seem to forget something, Oppenheimer's quote was after the explosion, ample proof it worked.
If and it's and enormous if, Rossi's device does work, comparing him (Rossi doesn't know 1/100 of what Fermi knew) is apples and carburetors. Rossi is an inventor, you could have used Edison, he was an inventor as well as a d-bag in the long run, ask Georges Méliès and Tesla to name a few.
I'm not the one with the nerve to compare Rossi to Fermi. I'm not arguing personalities, I'm arguing reality. Fermi was an excellent scientist, no one disputes this. Rossi's mail order degree is fake so no soup for you there.
I am pointing out that it is an appeal to authority to mention the two in the same breath, I consider it a sacrilege.
Besides, this is the 21st century, Firmi’s method worked for then but you wouldn’t use it now, would you stand outside a nuclear blast? ***Invalid analogy. Comparing the known past to the unknown.
Read that line slowly, Fermi used a quick and dirty calc on the back of an envelope. No excuse to use the same method today, besides having instruments to do it, it's rather unsafe to stand outside in fallout. Look at how old Fermi was when he died.
Has anyone seen a voltage and current meter on that 500KW generator that was hooked up? ***Argument from silence. Yes, but whose silence? How hard would it have been to rectify the output so the heaters received DC. The heaters couldn't have cared and it makes power calculation extremely simple with only a ammeter and a voltmeter. If you notice, Rossi uses clip on ammeters, they only work on A/C. The problem with A/C is that the calculations are easy to misinterpret while with DC, you only need basic math.
The article I saw was that he was considering selling shares, that screams SCAM.
One other thing, I thought the Oct 28th test was at Rossi’s factory, now I’ve read it took place at the University of Bologna, an appeal to authority, how nice. ***Majoring on the minors. This detail wouldn’t turn the tide one way or the other.
Yet, this is another place where Rossi gives more than one answer to the same question. When people lie, they have to keep the lies straight. When you're a pathological liar, the lies are so many and intertwined, it only takes one to bring the whole fraud down. Finally, again, to the challenge, what and who would we consider as a valid test?
I don't want people to go away with the wrong opinion. I think Rossi, is a 3 time scammer, the E-Cat is another scam in the Dennis Lee and Joseph Newman mold.
Where oh where is the E-CAT Rossi bragged he used to heat his factory for two years? It seems he sold that factory, what happened to the E-Cat. If you're honest and look at Rossi's history, he supposedly had another device but when it came time to test it, the factory burned down and he was only able to produce device that were 1/100 the power of the ones he was crowing about. Aaaand, those devices showed nothing special.
I consider it a sacrilege.
***Science versus scientism. One is an acknowledged religion here on FR, with protections under the caucus rules by the Religion Moderator. If you feel so strongly about this subject that you would use such religiously edged language, then you might consider moving subjects like this to a scientism thread where such ‘sacrileges’ are not allowed.
No excuse to use the same method today
***Sure there is. Rossi isn’t doing this for scientific proof. He’s doing it for business. It’s a completely different realm of operation.
Yes, but whose silence?
***In this case, the customer’s. If he was too stupid to see such an obvious problem, then his €2M was poorly spent. Arguing from the silence is a logical fallacy. You can’t argue that George Washington was gay because he was silent on the subject of gays.
Finally, again, to the challenge, what and who would we consider as a valid test?
***As I stated before, I posted a thread to that effect and the whole thread was yanked. It’s probably best to keep it incremental and simple. For instance: A major publication with more than 1M readers will announce evidence that Rossi’s demos are faked by December 1 2011, as determined by ___fillintheblank___ freeper whom we both agree as arbiter. But we probably won’t come to terms because of what I stated on the thread that was pulled — basically I like having bragging rights from the time I got the contracts listed at Intrade and put my money where my mouth was, and got money in my pocket as a result. If the bet is just about who’s going to give money to FR, then I won’t have what I had the last time around, which is money in my pocket as well as the bragging rights.
1) I would prefer to be someone who proves it works.
***Same here, but truth is truth.
2) I know it doesn’t work and never will.
***Faith position. If you’re so sure of it then prove it and put up the dough to prove it.
3) I have no desire to attain some weird form of fame debunking this ‘device’.
***Then wait for someone else to do it.
4) I don’t want people to know who I am, I prefer anonymity.
***Anonymity is the spiritual foundation for all... oops, wrong program. I suppose there are ways to do it anonymously if that’s important to you.
5) Shelling out over $5k for a device I know is fake is foolishness.
***That’s because you do not have that desire mentioned earlier. So, someone else will have to make a name for themselves. As for me, I’d shell out $5k for one of these devices tomorrow. But Rossi isn’t letting them out the door for less than €2M.
Sooner or later, it will end up in the hands of someone neutral who we hope will provide an accurate test.
***It is in the hands of someone neutral already — Rossi’s customer, unless this conspiracy theory is “so wide, so vast” that it will pop like a big balloon very shortly.
You’re so sure, you kick down the money and prove it works, fame and fortune await...
***I’d love to. I do not have €2M but I would kick down $5k in a heartbeat.
That's lovely, but I'm not paying anything to prove anything.
2) I know it doesn’t work and never will. ***Faith position. If you’re so sure of it then prove it and put up the dough to prove it.
I am backing my opinion on science, while I have faith, it's has nothing to do with this scam. From what I've read, you don't understand the science on why it will never work.
Black Light Power has trying to do the same thing and they've spent millions. their owner and idea man, Randall Mills at least has a diploma from both Harvard , as an MD, and a degree in chemistry from Franklin & Marshall College. Nevertheless, they still have nothing although they are attempting to come up with the theory. Keep in mind other theorists say it's impossible.
3) I have no desire to attain some weird form of fame debunking this ‘device’. ***Then wait for someone else to do it.
Say Halleluiah brother! That's my point, we need to agree on what constitutes a valid test and that will determine the outcome of a wager or two with all proceeds going to Freerepublic. If you're right, Rossi doesn't need our money as he's solving the worlds energy crisis, a task that I assume pays well.
4) I don’t want people to know who I am, I prefer anonymity. ***Anonymity is the spiritual foundation for all... oops, wrong program. I suppose there are ways to do it anonymously if that’s important to you.
a) If this thing is real and we open it up, what if it's radioactive?
b) What about the self destruct mechanism Rossi laughably says he's going to install?
5) Shelling out over $5k for a device I know is fake is foolishness. ***That’s because you do not have that desire mentioned earlier. So, someone else will have to make a name for themselves. As for me, I’d shell out $5k for one of these devices tomorrow. But Rossi isn’t letting them out the door for less than €2M.
I don't want my name to go down as someone who was foolish enough to get swindled by Rossi. You however, knock yourself out.
Sooner or later, it will end up in the hands of someone neutral who we hope will provide an accurate test. ***It is in the hands of someone neutral already — Rossi’s customer, unless this conspiracy theory is “so wide, so vast” that it will pop like a big balloon very shortly.
Sorry, pass, no sale. Unless his super duper secret customer will allow their testing results to be published, which I doubt for two reasons, 1) Because they would want to keep its functionality secret and two, I believe the customer is a shill.
You’re so sure, you kick down the money and prove it works, fame and fortune await... ***I’d love to. I do not have €2M but I would kick down $5k in a heartbeat.
Gather a group of suckers.
In the immortal word of Sammy Hagar on 5150, "You were a sucker...".
I am backing my opinion on science, while I have faith,
***And I am backing my opinion on science as well. For instance, as of 4 years ago the Pons-Fleischmann effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times. It’s amazing how non-scientific the comments are from the squawkish feathery detractor brigade when that fact is discussed.
Then you should have no problem linking to ten of these 14,700 successes?
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