A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In The Middle Of A War Zone

SHTF Plan ^ | 10-25-2011 | Chris Kitze

[familyop]

"About pets, i did not have it, i did not notice a lot pets in that time, did somebody ate it? I don t know, probably."

Suburban livestock--very important. Meow! Yap, yap! ;-)

[elkfersupper]

bookmark

[Moltke]

bfl

[outofsalt]

ping for later

[Adder]

Just wow.

Looks like I gotta a lot more to do.

[hiasm]

Hi, Would it be possible for you to add me to your Preppers Ping List please?

[sergeantdave]

Out of the entire exposition, this stands out most for me: “And from my expirience, you can not survive alone, strength is in the numbers...”

Anyone trying to survive alone is dead.

You people living in big liberal cities are meat, waiting to be devoured. It’s best to get out now and find a small community of Christians who are heavily armed. You’ll find some semblance of civilization and moral justice there. And you’ll likely survive.

And don’t forget the Bic lighters.

[Kartographer]

It’s SHTF

You have Gold and diarrhea.

I have anti-diarrhea caplets and TP.

I should trade with you because?

Now another guy has two boxes of 9mm and diarrhea.

I have anti-diarrhea caplets and TP.

I think we can talk.

IMHO gold will be valuable after SHTF, but during it not so much.

You have a canned ham, 5 lbs of bean and 5 gallons of drinkable water it’s SHTF. You have no idea where your next meal will come from when what you have is gone. Tell me how much gold will it take to get you to sell?

[Vinnie]

Ping for later.

[MonicaG]

This is great - thank you Blam!

[BigpapaBo]

Please add me to the Preppers Ping list.
Thanks

[blam]

"And don’t forget the Bic lighters. "

I've been buying (for about $3.00 each) empty 20 pound propane tanks (like Blue Rhino) at yard sales and filling them. I have 15 stored already and a number came with an outdoor cooker stand, ideal for big pots, etc.(some of the tanks are almost full)

Also, I have bought a special fitting that will allow me to fill the smaller (lantern size) propane tanks from the 20 pound tanks. This is similar to the story of refilling the Bic lighter except on a larger scale.

Anyway, save the smaller propane tanks...someone will be able to refill those from larger tanks for (probably) food when the time comes.

[PA Engineer]

You have a canned ham, 5 lbs of bean and 5 gallons of drinkable water it’s SHTF. You have no idea where your next meal will come from when what you have is gone. Tell me how much gold will it take to get you to sell?

You are stressed out with other refugees at the Peace Bridge waiting to cross into Canada. Your country is in flames. The person in front of you is just turned away with a bucket of stale beans. In your pockets you have rolls of gold coins. The immigration agent eyes you up. He is tired. Inflation has really damaged his lifestyle. His children need new clothes, his wife is nagging him and his one daughter desperately needs a set of braces. You step forward and hand him your passport. Inside your passport are three maple leafs. He looks at you and then the passport. He stamps your passport with a visitors visa and motions you forward and not back across the bridge.

That is just one scenario. If you are already prepared what is the point of watching your savings destroyed by a currency collapse, bank holiday, hyperinflation, or currency reissue? My only remaining preps is energy diversification. I live in the middle literally of natural gas production. I am going to bury a 500 gallon propane tank for backup to my existing gas service. The propane is not for heat, but cooking, drying and hot water. I am at the point now where a lifestyle change is just the throw of a few switches and the turning of valves. I am very rural with close neighbors. My preps and location change were thought out over 15 years ago when I woke up to the reality of fiat currency.

The reality is we live in two worlds. The world of prepping for the worst case and the reality we will need to still save for our future. Shiny metal is just another form of preparation. It also provides other options when there is a new normal after the SHTF. One option shiny metal will get you is a new beginning when the new normal is established. That sadly may be somewhere else.

[Kartographer]

"One option shiny metal will get you is a new beginning when the new normal is established. That sadly may be somewhere else."

That's true if you plan to escape somewhere gold can be useful, but let me ask you this if America fails where do you go? You suggest Canada, but how many will they take? At what point will some just rob you and shoot you at the border? What country would you truly be safe in when being a American citizen no longer means anything? What country will be safe once America is not their as their ally? Do you think the Russian and the Chinese won't move? Would it be possible to use gold to escape such a scenario yes, but for 95% or better your gold will end up being trade for a few ounces of lead.

[READINABLUESTATE]

Ping

[sergeantdave]

“Also, I have bought a special fitting that will allow me to fill the smaller (lantern size) propane tanks from the 20 pound tanks.”

I’ll assume you know the technique on how to fill smaller propane receptacles from larger ones, so allow me to address the patriot community generally:

If you don’t do this right and do not follow all necessary safety procedures, parts of you will scattered all over the county and maybe the next state. Be careful.

[blam]

"If you don’t do this right and do not follow all necessary safety procedures, parts of you will scattered all over the county and maybe the next state. Be careful. "

Yup.

BOOM!

Pressure control is crucial.

[familyop]

"If you are already prepared what is the point of watching your savings destroyed by a currency collapse, bank holiday, hyperinflation, or currency reissue?"

Yes. Gold should be good for holding value until a currency adjustment is done. There are also net oil export countries for keeping savings/investments. The West is in decline, but the East is generally not, for the long haul (contrary to export/merchant feel-good propaganda). Lean toward a net oil export country with the least public corruption.

"My only remaining preps is energy diversification. I live in the middle literally of natural gas production. I am going to bury a 500 gallon propane tank for backup to my existing gas service. The propane is not for heat, but cooking, drying and hot water. I am at the point now where a lifestyle change is just the throw of a few switches and the turning of valves. I am very rural with close neighbors."

Good. Many preppers are obviously limited to backpackers'/adventurers' scenarios and tend to neglect energy considerations.

Consider getting a 1000-gallon propane tank, or another 500, if you already have a 500-gallon one--especially if drying is included. I'm in a dryer (but much colder) climate and will routinely be using a greenhouse-like structure for drying clothes.

Consider building one of the following. It should work just about anywhere in the USA with enough thermal storage (tank size). The tank will do well in a crawl space, or anywhere with enough insulation (recommend much insulation on tank, either in crawl space or buried in earth). Buried concrete tanks should also work well, if they're heavily insulated enough and buried (for extra thermal mass).

$1000 Solar Water Heater --Overview
http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/PEXColDHW/Overview.htm

As for the odds for various, probable disaster scenarios, I only see economic decline/default (for the West), and possibly, large scale war (depends on near-future political swings, for one). But there are no likely, near-future foreign enemies with great enough amphibious/air capabilities for invading and occupying the USA.

Granted, for people in some locales, large natural disasters are a possibility (magnetic polar shift in process, more and larger storm activity, increases in worldwide volcanic activity and possible extended solar minimum preceding wetter, colder fluctuations, etc.).

The possibility of EMP strikes preceding other nuclear weapons strikes is also becoming more likely than in the past. Many of the preparations for that possibility are the same as for an economic decline except for the extra shelter/electronics preparations.

I'm leaning toward fencing and getting yaks next, maybe. *Grunt* ;-) As far as I can find, they're the only livestock that may survive and thrive well in this climate. Had a pretty good storm over the past day after a great, extra warm spell.

Another consideration that is often missed is that of routine, good hygiene combined with a good physical exercise regimen (starting light and building up from that). For those of you who can, be clean in everything, and become a PT (physical training) animal.

Only a few, random suggestions. As for cannibalism between Americans, and the like, I'm a little more than skeptical (having trained and served in several disciplines, sports, duties and jobs involving extreme violence). There are some parallels between our USA and other cultures, but we're not Albanians, Croats or Serbs, either. There's still a Protestant influence here. ;-)

Speaking of which, I recently moved about 300 cubic yards of earth--much of it, stone--with a shovel and another family member (also using a shovel). That "work ethic" thing, you know. *Sniff*

[Chickensoup]

Know this Chickensoup

[PA Engineer]

Consider getting a 1000-gallon propane tank, or another 500, if you already have a 500-gallon one--especially if drying is included. I'm in a dryer (but much colder) climate and will routinely be using a greenhouse-like structure for drying clothes.



I got the greenhouse, however in my neck of the woods we are langley challenged. For those months I have an Aspen wood stove in the greenhouse and a floor rack for drying.

I am fairly constrained on space because of the geography (hills) and will be stuck with 500 gallons. I definitely want the tank buried. I'll do my own corrosion work on it.

I have the solar panels (30 helios) stored away. I also have stacked inverters with 16 L-16 batteries. I do recommend this charger. They just work. I use a generator for now to charge the batteries during power outages. In a SHTF scenario that will be limited to a couple of weeks and not because of fuel, but advertising. Plenty of time to get the panels up. Everything is prewired including the ground. The south side of my house faces my own ridge and woodlands. It is very private. I have designed for 5KW a day. The minimum is 3. It is amazing what can be turned off to get by. Water, hygiene and refrigeration are really all that matter. Can do those on the low end estimate. Prefer the higher end for lighting and coms.

Heating will be mostly wood and passive solar when we have sun. Western PA can be very dreary during winter. I keep five full chords (2 year seasoned) available at all times. This covers the 6000 HD days here. Built a nice shelter last fall. Will post a picture someday. We are lucky to live on acreage with hardwood. I do the cutting and splitting. There are some great non-electric splitters available now for the big stuff.

The possibility of EMP strikes preceding other nuclear weapons strikes is also becoming more likely than in the past. Many of the preparations for that possibility are the same as for an economic decline except for the extra shelter/electronics preparations.

That actually is one of my greatest concerns lately. NEC requires everything to have a common ground. I understand that and the shock potential issue. Sadly, keeping boxes, inverters, batteries and transfer switches on one ground creates a greater risk for EMP damage. I am working with the electrician on this one. Good guy. Tough problem to get the stamp of approval on. We have had to ground (batteries) damage to the panel meters from lightening. Let the smoke out. Probably will go with two separate grounds bonded together with a knife switch. Hope he understands. I really need a large spark gap. EMP is really my greatest concern from the service side. Reflexive insulation can go a long ways to provide shielding from line of site damage. I am very concerned about the FETS in the inverters. That is a large expense (backup units) that I am having some trouble with.

Another consideration that is often missed is that of routine, good hygiene combined with a good physical exercise regimen (starting light and building up from that). For those of you who can, be clean in everything, and become a PT (physical training) animal.

Agree. I do masters competition swimming, that firewood thing and the other chores a ridge home with a 350 foot driveway requires. Strait up and strait down. Just finished the new planters. We are well covered on the hygiene and medical front. Neighbor is a surgeon and wife MD. We have stocked away enough supplies to get us over the hump. Neighbor is an interesting guy. If you know hunting then you will know his father. His father was a very famous hand trauma surgeon who founded the International Safari Club. Very good people.

Only a few, random suggestions. As for cannibalism between Americans, and the like, I'm a little more than skeptical (having trained and served in several disciplines, sports, duties and jobs involving extreme violence). There are some parallels between our USA and other cultures, but we're not Albanians, Croats or Serbs, either. There's still a Protestant influence here. ;-)

I hope you are right. My wife and I have an extensive library on WWII. Stalingrad comes to mind and that includes both sides of the siege. A very troubling thing.

Speaking of which, I recently moved about 300 cubic yards of earth--much of it, stone--with a shovel and another family member (also using a shovel). That "work ethic" thing, you know. *Sniff*

Motrin stores well. ;-)

Thanks for the very thoughtful response. We have been at this for a very long time. Oddly we arrived at our extended prepper mentality out of necessity. A blizzard cut us off here during our first year. We thought at the time we were prepared. Not. On a well toilets don't flush without electricity. The "awakening" was as simple as that. Yeah we could survive without any of the "basic" amenities of modern life. Why?

Feel free to contact me by Freepmail for security related issues. Thanks again for the thoughtful reply.