Posted on 10/25/2011 8:53:31 PM PDT by smoothsailing
Gary Langer
October 25, 2011
A flat tax like the one proposed today by Republican presidential candidate Gov. Rick Perry engenders a split decision in public opinion — if not the warmest reception, a better one than the public’s broader disapproval of his rival Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan.
While a flat tax divides the nation overall, moreover, it resonates most strongly in a group of particular interest to Perry – “very conservative” Americans, a key GOP voting group. They hold favorable views of a flat tax by a broad 68-28 percent in this ABC News/Washington Post poll,....
...As noted, very conservative Americans express a favorable opinion of a flat tax plan by a vast 40-point margin. The same group, by contrast, only divides on 9-9-9, with 46 percent seeing it favorably, 49 percent unfavorably.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Frankly, I don’t know if I like EITHER of the tax plans fully. I’m just glad someone is seriously considering reductions in federal taxes. Now it’s time to take on the SPENDING side of the equation!
That would be a total waste. He is the only conservative in the race with the intelligence and experience to handle the libs and the media, and he knows how to get things done in DC.
Considering the gravity of the situation we’re in, I don’t see trusting the White House to someone inexperienced or of lesser caliber.
We’ve tried that, and it doesn’t work.
In addition to being the President’s Press Secretary, he would also be the President’s top Senior Advisor. He would be the most powerful unelected man in Washington. That’s the best we can hope for, Newt is unelectable.
No, he’s not, pay attention to the recent respect he’s getting, including around here.
And who would you have him be press secretary to?
There’s no one in the current field I’d vote for, other than him.
Except against Obama. of course.
He has hands down won every single debate, because he refuses to get into the games the media play. Witness the shambles that has left the other clowns in.
And I like Cain, but he needs some real governing experience before we put him in the white house. Look what we have now, not that that’s a fair comparison, just sayin’. His 999 is already crumbling.
Anybody but Romney or Paul. Perry, Cain, or Bachmann are ones I can vote for. If Santorum or Gingrich somehow got nominated, I’d support them too.
Perry will also open every well (oil, gas), and construct every pipeline we need. Instant jobs and cheap gas. It’s no secret in Texas how much he hates the EPA. Perry will bring this boat around.
Cain’s plan is not the Fair Tax. It’s the Fair Tax AND the Flat Tax with Reparation Zones added in.
But that big long name wouldn't have fit into my joke. Besides, that's too big and too long of a name.
Other than that, point taken and perhaps point made.
BTW, are those cub scout uniforms?
Well, in truth, it is a flat tax with deductions, so it still isn’t “flat.” It favors some industries, eg, the residential real estate industry.
A truly flat tax would have no favorites. It would have no deductions for kids, educational expenses, mortgages or medical expenses. You’d just take a percentage of what you received in income in the last calendar year, then see that amount is remitted to the US Treasury and get on with your life.
Perry’s plan has some good aspects, but the things like deductions for home mortgage interest will still leave the plan open to lobbying by special interests. If there’s a deduction that favors even ONE industry, then the rest of them will want in - under the pretext that giving out a deduction for their industry will “increase economic growth and jobs...”
Which, BTW, is always the excuse why the home mortgage interest deduction is retained.
At this point, simply cutting the tax rate isn’t enough. The tax code needs to be drastically simplified for corporations/partnerships/llc’s/sole-prop’s.
The whole edifice of the Internal Revenue Code is too complex for small businesses. There are silly incentives, loopholes and schemes plastered all through the code, as well as penalties, gotchas and wrinkles that, for the unwary, become audit magnets.
The emphasis of the tax code should be to raise tax revenue, period. We need to get rid of the social engineering and economic tinkering that is now the bulk of the US corporate tax code. This flat tax does only some of that. Too many ‘conservatives’ have tunnel-vision on the tax rate, but they completely ignore the costs of compliance with various deductions, incentives and schemes.
I would greatly prefer to have even a slightly higher than “the lowest possible” rate if it meant that I didn’t have to spend more than 30 minutes per year or 10 minutes per quarter complying with the income tax. When I would prepare the returns for our farm, it would take me weeks (running into 100+ hours) to prepare a return. There were reams of data to enter. receipts that had to be organized, W-2’s, 1099’s and so on that had to be mailed out, monthly witholding for employee salaries that had to be mailed in or deposited at a local bank, depreciation schedules to be updated every year, blah, blah, blah, blah. CPA’s were worse than useless for farm accounting, since most CPA’s are dumber than a stump about farming. Throw in some advanced investment techniques with options on stocks and 90%+ of CPA’s are completely useless.
Next thing is the record keeping. When you’re running a business that has any regulatory compliance, you have to keep records. When you’re dealing with the IRS, you have to keep records from the date of filing or from the date of the last contact with the IRS concerning a return. When your records for regulatory compliance are also needed for the tax return, your files become very messy indeed, because you’d prefer to not have to show a non-tax regulatory agency your taxes, and vice-versa.
I want this mountain of paperwork I have to drag around to simply go away. If there are few to no deductions, then I don’t have to document anything on a return and I can just chuck most of my paperwork overboard. Right now, I could probably fill a 1-ton pickup with various records for personal and business tax records, as well as other regulatory compliance that I’m forced to keep by law. I’m fed up with keeping mountains of friggin’ paper. I don’t want to go “paperless,” I want to simply not have to worry about keeping records for the government at all. The only records I want to keep are:
a) records of who paid me, how much, and when.
b) a confirmation of how much and when I sent in the government’s take of the payments I received.
That’s it. Full stop.
Why would the 47% who are paying nothing under the current system and even get free money refunded to them ever let it go in favor of a 20% tax rate ? The Perry plan might exempt $50K for a family of four, but it won’t give them money back in EITC and other refundable tax credits. So they won’t switch to it.
The top 1% of income earners have an effective tax rate of 17%. They’ll stick with the current tax code.
Warren Buffet pays barely 10% now, so he and others like him will stick to the old tax code where their cap gains and dividends are taxed at 15% rather than Perry’s 20% and their muni bonds are tax free.
Of course these uber wealthy people’s estates will choose the Perry plan in the year they die so they can avoid the 55% estate taxes.
Making a tax plan “optional” is stupid. Enshrining government favoritism for people who choose to have a big mortgage debt rather than owning their home is moronic. Giving a family of four a $50K exemption before they even start to pay taxes is idiotic — they can vote for bigger government knowing it’ll never cost them a dime.
There are issues with both the Fair Tax and the Flat Tax. However, either is superior to the current system, but the Fair Tax eliminates more federal bureacracy than the Flat Tax.
Perry’s plan pushes more of the economy into the underground, thereby requiring greater enforcement -— a stronger IRS.
Perry’s plan cannot be done on a postcard. You still have to supply supporting documentation for your income, like your W-2.
Perry’s plan retains deductions.....so the clock is set back a few years. Once liberals are back in charge, expect the code to get muddied up again with loopholes, etc.
Perry’s plan is not revenue neutral. As a conservative, it is good to starve the beast. However, he will get slaughtered in the arena of public debate for this.
I also know 9-9-9 was changed within days of it being criticized. I expect it to change more as it becomes more disliked.
I also saw in Cain a man who had no idea how to defend or explain 9-9-9 except go to my website.
This is not a slam on Cain, this is how campaigns tend to run and Cain's one strength is his charm.
I also think Republicans tend to be behind the curve on what the next Presidential elections are about. Obama's original election was about charm. This next election is going to be an ugly blood bath as the Administration tries to hold onto power. This election is about defining a vision for America and painting Obama as the socialist scumbag he is.
I see Perry stepping down into the mire where Obama and his team lives and kicking his ass down there. I see Cain and Romney poking sticks at him from the edges.
"Perry's dumb"
"Show me your grades Obama"
This election is not going to be about being nice and if we go that route we will lose.
We need killers willing to go for the throat on this administration.
That’s because they think it is a “flat tax” ... it is not. That is optional. If you were running GE today, would you choose a 20% flat tax or the present system under which you pay ZERO in taxes. Read it folks, it’s not a flat tax ... it is what we have now with that as an option.
Can’t argue with that. Though I’d have a hard time not voting against Obama, no matter who we nominate.
“The only records I want to keep are:
a) records of who paid me, how much, and when.
b) a confirmation of how much and when I sent in the government’s take of the payments I received.
That’s it. Full stop.”
No deductions for straight up cost of doing business?
Wages, tractors, seed, etc?
Flat tax on gross?
Well perhaps the country is finally catching up to Steve Forbes.
I prefer the Perry plan to 9-9-9. I prefer Cain as a candidate who can project a positive vision combined with good policy. Gingrich has a better plan than Perry.
“Make the United States the most desirable location for new business investment through a bold series of tax cuts, including: Eliminating the capital gains tax to make American entrepreneurs more competitive against those in other countries; Dramatically reducing the corporate income tax (among highest in the world) to 12.5%; Allowing for 100% expensing of new equipment to spur innovation and American manufacturing; Ending the death tax permanently.
Move toward an optional flat tax of 15% that would allow Americans the freedom to choose to file their taxes on a postcard, saving hundreds of billions in unnecessary costs each year. This optional flat tax system will preserve deductions on charitable giving and home ownership, and create a new personal deduction of $12,000 for every American. This deduction is well above the current poverty level, ensuring that this new system does not unfairly target the poor.”
Gingrich plan overall is the best.
Romeny not acceptable
Paul not acceptable
Santorum OK on issues, but not a good candidate
Bachmann good on issues unable to project a positive vision
Gingrich, very good program, past personal issues and some bad political judgement would destroy Obama in debates can articulate positive vision
Perry good on most issues, unable to articulate his positions horrible debater
Cain project positive image, god on policy (even though I prefer Flat tax to 9-9-9) good debater weak on policy detail
Either Cain or Gingrich will wipe the floor with Obama, Perry would be hurt since he doesn’t seem quick on his feet. Other than Romney and Paul the rest would be easy to vote for. IMO the Race is down to Cain, Romney , Gingrich and possibly Perry if he can get a bump from his economic plan.
It is a shame Palin didn’t run.
It's the same for me, I just hope the Republicans don't nominate that flipfloping weasel Romney.
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