Posted on 10/16/2011 5:42:57 PM PDT by Polybius
There’s one message from the 2010 elections that many so-called policy makers, political elites and analysts did not hear. Namely, the American people are not as uninformed and stupid as they think we are.
President Obama’s Debt Commission and the Bipartisan Policy Center’s Debt Reduction Task Force have both floated its ideas for reducing our nation’s runaway national debt. .....
The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.
Here are three of the biggest reasons the national retail sales tax is the worst idea on the table.
First, we have a spending problem in Washington, D.C. not a revenue problem. ......
Even worse is reason number two: In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. ....
For the liberal naysayers who say that would not happen, you lose! Just look at the Social Security system, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the years since their inception, taxes have gone up, benefits have gone down and they are still on a path of insolvency.
Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside.
A national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane! It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country.
People are not stupid. Maybe they will hear us in 2012.
(Excerpt) Read more at economicfreedomcoalition.com ...
Cain is a master at deflecting criticism and arguments raised by other people. He just shoos them away like annoying flies and refuses to answer their questions.
But there's one person who is wise to him, who can gut and fillet his 9-9-9 plan like a fat lake trout. Who is that man?
Herman Cain himself.
You are missing Cain's own words in Cain's own article:
"The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT" --- Herman Cain
Cain was using "VAT" as a catchy title for his article:
"Don’t be VAT stupid" = Don’t be THAT stupid"
Get it? Ha, ha, ha.
Cain is being so "cutesy" that even his own supporters aren't laughing anymore and complaining that Cain is not making any sense.
“because it creates the infrastructure for a federal-level, European-style VAT”
Well hot digity dog. It’s not a VAT but we secretly know that it will lead to VAT.
My sole point was that the claim that Cain was inconsistent in attacking VAT last year and advocating end-user sales tax now is specious.
Hammer away at his national sales tax if you wish and the other two as well.
Just don’t say that his sales tax is a VAT.
That it creates the infrastructure for a VAT is pretty flimsy. If he’s on record opposing VAT, it sounds like he may just know the difference between the two.
There’s a lot of people out there who want a VAT. Just don’t try to tell me that Cain’s one of them. Attack his 9-9-9 on merits. But your italicized expert analysts take a cheap shot with their “creates the infrastructure” line.
Cain shot himself in the foot by saying that great idea was a joke. How disappointing.
What a maroon.
Personally, I still like my idea of setting up remotely operated machine gun bunkers all along the border that could be operated by people at home from their computers. Home users would, for an hourly fee, be able to pan a camera for a mile stretch of the border (including night vision) and use a game controller to aim and fire. I bet demand would be through the roof for something like this, and the revenue would more than pay for the bunkers, guns, and equipment.
You people really need to quit lying here on Free Republic boards. Last November, Cain was pushing the Linder-Boortz Fair Tax every single night on his radio show.
You know, for most of its first 125 years, the United States financed just about everything via sales taxes. Customs duties etc.
I’m not all super excited about a national sales tax. But neither do I think it will bring Armageddon.
Let it be debated in Congress if he’s elected. I’m skeptical that it will pass, I expect various factions to try to load it down with special interest exemptions. Sure, there’s potential for all sorts of mischief.
But it has the distinct advantage of focusing attention on the idea of sweeping away the tax code by which the Ruling Class rules us.
Perhaps Cain is a doofus who won’t be smart enough to see that Congress is trying to bamboozle him and he’ll let himself be hogtied.
On the other hand, he strikes me as pretty darn blunt and commonsensical.
I trade you your fear of camel’s nose in the tent for the courage to sweep the tax code away all at once. I doubt it will succeed very soon, but it will focus attention on that rather than tweaking around the edges
which
is
what
most
of
the
others
want to do. He’s on record opposing a VAT. How come you know so much better than he does that he really wants a VAT? How do you know he’s a double-dealing liar who says he’s against what he’s for?
I never thought I would see a candidate that Flip-Flops more than Romney, but Cain is beginning to set a new record. Cain is Flip-Flopping every day now. He sometimes flip-flops in a matter of minutes.
It is obvious that Cain like Romney has no core principles and stands for nothing but winning elections, or, in Cain’s case winning the election for Romney.
It is not hard to see why Cain endorsed Romney in 2008 and why he will endorse him again in 2012.
Romney owns the Largest Radio Network in the USA, Clear Channel Radio Network and Romney is in a position to get Cain a lucrative Talk Radio Contract even if Romney does not win the Nomination.
I will forgo the cheap ad hominem and ask you to read Cain's own words.
The TAX ITSELF, according Cain, is "one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country".
The current rate, according to Cain's article, is IRRELEVANT because History proves that IT ALWAYS GOES UP.
============================
"In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. ....
For the liberal naysayers who say that would not happen, you lose! Just look at the Social Security system, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the years since their inception, taxes have gone up, benefits have gone down and they are still on a path of insolvency.
Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside."
It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country.
>> First, we have a spending problem in Washington, D.C. not a revenue problem.
That ought to be up in neon lights.
I have never heard Cain come out against runaway spending. Just this gimmicky 999 stuff.
It’s early. We call that the softening period. :^)
Businesses don’t pay sales tax on materials converted for later sale. That would be a VAT.
Learn the difference. A VAT is added at every point of the production process - wherever value is added, thus the name. A sales tax shifts from a production tax to a consumption tax, which is prudent and stabilizes known expense for manufacturers and business. This will spur economic growth.
Cain states that this is a step in the path to a fair tax. It is impossible to go from our current system to the fair tax in one step - there has to be a step down, and this could be it.
>> Personally, I still like my idea of setting up remotely operated machine gun bunkers all along the border that could be operated by people at home from their computers.
ROFL! I’d sign up.
I’m in favor of Predators with Hellfire missiles patrolling the border also. Or whatever missile/bomb is most effective against individuals and small groups. Maybe just a Predator with a gatling gun.
>> Learn the difference.
Hey, thanks for the pedantic lecture, but we *know* the difference.
On the other hand, I give Cain’s national sales tax about “9” months to MORPH into a VAT. Call it the fourth “9” if you like.
Putting another revenue stream in the hands of our politicians is a really DUMB idea.
CUT THE SPENDING! IT’S THE SPENDING, STUPID!
Oh, and also the damn regulations. They are the real growth killers. Funny how Cain doesn’t push that, also. Just “999”.
I noticed you conveniently bolded the wrong part. I've fixed that in my quote above. See the difference? 9-9-9 scraps the existing code.
Further, a VAT is different than the 9-9-9 or Fair Tax proposals that Cain supports.
Not even a nice try at a hatchet job, just lazy.
His shoestring campaign seems to be leaning toward mucking the primaries up for conservatives, thus giving Romney the nomination. It resembles what Huckabee did in 2008 and helped McCain get the nomination.
***
If Cain starts saying obviously stupid junk, then I’ll be much more likely to believe you.
I believe Cain wants to be the next Sarah Palin with $100,000 speaking fees, book sales and a "Huckabee" style TV show on FOX News.
It is obvious, however, that Cain has done absolutely NOTHING to build up a war chest needed for the "Ad Wars". With his Gaffe-of-the-Day marathon, he would need millions to counter all the attacks that his flip-flops would bring.
Romney is Cain's choice for the GOP nomination and Cain has done everything he can to help Romney and set himself up in a lucrative new career:
1.) All Cain attacks are directed at Perry.
2.) No Cain attacks are directed at Romney.
3.) Cain has stated that he will not support Perry even against Marxist Obama
4.) Cain has said that he is willing to support Romney.
5.) During October, Cain is focusing on selling books on a national book tour instead of focusing on the logistical "Beans & Bullets" needed to win the Primary Wars that will start in the near future.
6.) In my opinion, for the above reasons, Cain's ultimate goal is to become the next conservative premier speaking tour draw and the next Huckabee on FOX News while leaving the GOP nomination to Romney.
If they would lower my income taxes to 9%, I would take 9% sales tax.
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