Don’t be VAT stupid (Cain was AGAINST a National Sales Tax last November)

Herman Cain T.H.E New Voice, Inc. ^ | November 21, 2010 | Herman Cain

[Polybius]

There’s one message from the 2010 elections that many so-called policy makers, political elites and analysts did not hear. Namely, the American people are not as uninformed and stupid as they think we are.

President Obama’s Debt Commission and the Bipartisan Policy Center’s Debt Reduction Task Force have both floated its ideas for reducing our nation’s runaway national debt. .....

The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.

Here are three of the biggest reasons the national retail sales tax is the worst idea on the table.

First, we have a spending problem in Washington, D.C. not a revenue problem. ......

Even worse is reason number two: In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. ....

For the liberal naysayers who say that would not happen, you lose! Just look at the Social Security system, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the years since their inception, taxes have gone up, benefits have gone down and they are still on a path of insolvency.

Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside.

A national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane! It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country.

People are not stupid. Maybe they will hear us in 2012.

[federal__reserve]

You might want to keep up with the news?
And please say hello to Perry. I still like him for VP.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65990.html

[pallis]

Cain probably realized we already pay a VAT that is higher than his 9 percent proposal.

[Castigar]

A sales tax and a VAT tax are two different things! Do you know what the word demagogue means?

[o2bfree]

hahaha, You’re seem to be against making taxes fair, so Democrats and Illegal Aliens have to pay taxes too.

You also don’t know the difference between a VAT tax and a National Sales Tax.

[Polybius]

A sales tax is not a VAT

Why are you telling me?

Tell Cain. Those are HIS words, not my words.

"The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT" --- Herman Cain

Cain was using "VAT" as a catchy title for his article:

"Don’t be VAT stupid" = Don’t be THAT stupid"

Get it? Ha, ha, ha.

Another Cain "joke" that fell flat even with you, his own supporter.

Between coming across as the "Comedian-in-Chief" and as the "Sloganeer-in-Chief" and completely blowing off serious fund-raising to hawk his books, it is more than obvious that the final stop of The Cain Train will be a TV show offer from FOX News while Cain's buddy, Mitt Romney, is left to pick up the GOP nomination after Cain and Romney have finished their tag-team attacks on Perry.

Herman Cain Only Has 'Several Hundred Thousand Dollars' In The Bank .... Compare that to Romney's $14 million or Perry's $18 million

Michael Steele to Herman Cain: Get Off the Book Tour

Herman Cain said Wednesday that he would be unable to support Rick Perry for president if the Texas governor were to eventually win the party's nomination. .... The former businessman said, for instance, that he could support former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney....

[Recovering_Democrat]

Are we certain a VAT is the same as a national sales tax?

[behzinlea]

Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside.

Who is this jerk saying all these nasty and untrue things about the Herminator's federal sales tax? : D

[sklar]

But don't forget, under 9-9-9, when the flour maker buys wheat from the farmer, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE.

When the baker buys flour from the flour maker, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE. etc etc etc.

These taxes will be tacked on to the price of product.

Additionally, when the IRS Code goes away, every business in the production chain will lose their deductions for cost of doing business. THOSE prices will have to be tacked onto product as well.

[Reagan Man]

Pal, I've been analyzing politics for over 40 years. I have done my homework and I've looked at a half dozen serious analysis of Cains 999 tax plan.

One analysis is from Freedomworks and it makes whole lot of sense. As in conservative commonsense.

Mr. Cain's 999 plan is on the right track with its goal of a lower, flatter, simpler, fairer, more transparent tax system. Nine percent would be a wonderful top rate for the income tax, compared to today's 35% top rate. And let's face it, abolishing the payroll tax and the death tax would simply be awesome.

But adding a national retail sales tax on top of the federal income tax (even a flat tax) is a bad idea, because it creates the infrastructure for a federal-level, European-style VAT.

And if Cain's 9% personal flat tax failed to remain flat (as happened with Ronald Reagan's promising but ultimately failed 1986 tax reform), we would end up with the worst of both worlds: a confiscatory income tax and a job-crushing VAT.

Paradoxically, then, if you want higher taxes and permanently bigger government, one way to get there would be to support Herman Cain's 999 plan!

Two rousing cheers, for boldness and imagination. And one bronx cheer, for a dangerous lack of foresight.

*****************************************

Just because Cain claims to be a conservative, doesn't mean he is one of us through and through. We FReepers have vetted Romney for years and more recently we vetted Rick Perry. Now its time to vet Herman Cain. Its necessary. Especially since he has no elective governing or legislative record whatsoever. Like Rush and Hannity, Cain has been a professional talk show host in recent years. That is not the resume of a GOP presidential candidate.

[behzinlea]

You also don’t know the difference between a VAT tax and a National Sales Tax.

Yeah. In one the federal government extorts money from me to spread around to its favored constituencies and in the other the federal government extorts money from me to spread around to its favored constituencies.

The difference is like night and day. Cain told me so.

[Happy Rain]

Cain sometimes misspeaks but Mitt Perry and Rick Romney screw-ups end up as policy.

Sticks and stones Cain haters.

[behzinlea]

What the Marxists were proposing last year was a true European VAT, which taxes a product at every stage od production and therefore hides the bulk of taxes from the average citizen. Cain is proposing a sales tax, which taxes at the point of retail sale, and is therefore not hidden from the public.

The difference is like losing your money to a sneak thief versus an armed robber.

Me? I don't care to have my money stolen at all.

[Polybius]

I think you should realize Cain said he was against a national sales tax on top of all the other federal taxes we pay. He’s not proposing that now, unless there’s something I’m missing.

Well, guess what?

The 9-9-9 Plan has an Income Tax PLUS a National Sales Tax PLUS a Capital Gains Tax.

Cain picked "9-9-9" just because it is a time-honored "cutesy" sales sound bite ..... One of the oldest gimmicky sales sound bites in the book.

Many of us on FR have been warning the "9-9-9" can easily creep up and up and up just like the Income tax did.

When the 9-9-9 Plan first came out, I posted the following on FR:

======================

The 9-9-9 Plan sounds cute and catchy but, now that Cain is no longer flying under the radar, the 9-9-9 Plan will get dissected.

The plan, for the first time in U.S. History, introduces a FEDERAL SALES TAX. As U.S. History has show, once you let the nose of a Tax Camel into your tent, the Tax Camels fat butt will eventually follow.

In 1913, the brand new Federal Income Tax was introduced and the top rate was only 7% (A cute little camel nose). By 1944, the top rate had ballooned to 94% (One huge, fat camel arse.)

Once you introduce a brand new Federal Sales Tax at 9% under Republican President Cain, what prevents a money addicted Federal government from jacking it up under Democrat President Jones to 10% .... 11% .... 12% .... 14% .... 16% .... 18% .... ?

Think about it.

======================

The Cain supporters said, "Oh, NOOOOO! That will NEVER happen because (Insert excuse here)"

But here is Herman Cain saying EXACTLY what we said:

"In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. ....

For the liberal naysayers who say that would not happen, you lose! Just look at the Social Security system, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the years since their inception, taxes have gone up, benefits have gone down and they are still on a path of insolvency.

Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside."

It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country.

[behzinlea]

Cain sometimes misspeaks

Maybe he didn't misspeak.

Maybe it was a joke, like that joke about electrifrying Mexicans.

[eyedigress]

Get a grip. The Herman Cain Plan.

[Happy Rain]

Did you read the last line of my post?

Fits, don’t it?

[Lancey Howard]

I would, however, trust 999 under Cain. If he didn't get the reduction, he wouldn't pass the tax.

"Reduction"? Don't be naive. Reductions ALWAYS go back up. A tax (preferably the income tax) must be eliminated completely.
It's "elimination" or nothing.

"Reduction"?... Get real.

[chesty_puller]

A VAT is a tax applied at each stage of building a widget. Nat sales tax only taxes the end product. Not nearly the same.

[Polybius]

I wouldn't trust the 999 plan in Obama's hands either. .... I would, however, trust 999 under Cain.

Well, that, right there, is the fly in the ointment.

Until the U.S. Consitution has an Amendment that only fiscally responsible Republicans can be elected President, sooner or later, there will be another Tax & Spend liberal in the White House.

As Cain himself said, "It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country."

[Artcore]

Dude, some advice, don’t put so much stuff into one post. I’ll wager most people simply skip right over it. In one post you’ve got: caps, pictures, bold, italics, underlining etc.

Way too much crap.

Just some advice.