Posted on 10/15/2011 3:46:42 PM PDT by justsaynomore
Art Laffer (the originator of the Laffer Curve, and inspiration of Reagonomics) breaks down Herman Cain's plan
(Excerpt) Read more at video.foxnews.com ...
Can’t get the video to run, now for some reason.
So I can’t see your reference.
So tell me, how do the free riders avoid the 9% sales tax?
I finally got the video to run and I still say your original statment: “Laffer said that those getting a free ride will still get their free ride”, is a lie.
It’s very interesting that Cain argues corporate tax avoidance imposes a higher tax burden on individual Americans because taxes are always passed along to consumers. (No, not really, of course.) Change the loopholes by eliminating the tax code and replace it with the Fair Tax and there would be no loopholes. Of course he has disingenuously never made a statement even vaguely critical of corporate lobbyists, interest groups and their advocates only doing the bidding of crooked crony career politicians like Perry. Who, as President, is going to work with these people Congress to get it passed ? - which of course contains an element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give the halfway rational listener a different impression.
Go for a Huntsman-like approach of phasing out loopholes and deductions and getting rid of corporate welfare to save billions on lobbyists whose job it is to help rewrite the tax code and pave the way for corporate tax dodging. But that can be effectively a flat tax.
A very close friend of mine, an Obama supporter (don’t ask me other than he hails from a deep deep blue Chicago Union Culture) who has a mother 82 years old who was an engineer for Ma Bell in her career and who now holds sway over the deep deep blue little old ladies of the democrat historical rank and file, Obama supporters every one of them in the last election but not so much now, they have decided that the deductions are for the rich and that is true to large extent.
They call these deductions “tax discounts” and they are for getting rid of them to go back to “how it used to be”.
The union rank and file are blue collar middle to lower class. The make $50,000 gross a year, take a standard deduction of 11,400 if married 1 kid and exemptions 3 X $3,650 leaving a taxable income of $27,650 and a tax of $3,314.
But their payroll taxes amount to 7.32% of $50,000 or $3,660 and will argue for the employer matching share also $3,660 which they feel strongly they will get as Corporate taxes are reset to 9% giving the employers a break.
Under the Cain 9-9-9 Plan they pay 9% on $50,000 or $4,500 income tax or an increase in income tax of $1,186 but they keep their payroll tax of $3,660 and likely double that with the matching employer contribution to $7,320. They come out way ahead.
The mentality of a blue collar union member is that they will take what they can get today and worry about tomorrow later.
Union members are also in favor of the FairTax but are hushed up about it by their leadership else they risk their union membership or position.
But the Union Leadership is for the “9-9-9 Plan” and they don’t call it the “Cain 9-9-9 Plan” because the lawyers that control the unions know it will bring a VAT and the democrat party wants a VAT.
I finally got the video to run and I still say your original statment: “Laffer said that those getting a free ride will still get their free ride”, is a lie.
If you note my actual words, I didn't quote Laffer, I summarized his statements. Twisting them so that you don't have to demonstrate the necessary character to apologize doesn't help your case, nor does it justify doubling down on your rudeness. But that is OK, I find that emotional people can't be expected to do the right thing and will continue to lash out to preserve their self-esteem.
If I thought I could have an amiable conversation with a rational person I would ask "How do you translate 'will get their taxes back' as meaning the exact opposite and that they will not have to pay taxes." But I don't want to embarrass you by expecting an honest, thought out reply.
Go back to your Cain worship, I'm sure the previous idol Palin was a disappointment and it will take some time to recover.
The only solution Mr. Zuckerman sees now to juice the economy "is to broaden the tax base and simplify and lower tax [rates]. To me that will be as close to revenue-neutral as you're going to have so it isn't going to be seen as a budget buster." He views GOP candidate Herman Cain's "9-9-9 plan" as a "little bit simple-minded," but he says that a reform that closes loopholes and reduces compliance costs will stimulate both business and consumer spending.
What he said was at 1:24 into the discussion.
He said:
“And what it does have is that it has at the end a ‘demi-grant’ (sic) for those below the poperty..poverty level it replaces some of them so they...so they really get their taxes ack if you will Brett....”
That’s the continuation of the Free Ride the poster The Theophilus was alluding to.
Have you read Cain’s website? The 999 plan is a transitional plan to the Fair Tax.
But not if some conservatives shoot it down before it even gets put on the table for that national discussion.
You must have waaaay too much time on your hands.
Why would a President Cain sign such a thing?
Also see link from another poster to this thread:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576628673446417268.html
Yeah, big time democrats are backing the 9-9-9 plan, leaving Cain’s name off of it or at least referring to him as simple-minded while saying at least it closes loopholes yada yada yada.
Yep, they back it.
Here comes the VAT.
The Stupid Party continues their Stupid March in their spectacularly Stupid Fashion.
I personally don’t think you should post “information” like that without links to sources.
You are saying two contradictory things. 1) that the vested interests won’t let the Liberals and RINOs pass it and that 2) it will lead to higher taxes and VAT.
I can’t tell the future but I see several possibilities.
First, I see that the 16th is a problem and it needs to be repealed. This can be part of the solution. You know and I know and everyone knows that Cain, as president, can’t dictate a new code he needs Congress to do it. So Cain is not the fear, the process and the Congress are the fear.
But Congressmen aren’t anything if not fearful of losing their jobs. If Cain wins by landslide, Congress has 2 years to make something serious happen, and obstructionists may lose their office. If the Senate is the problem, 4 years tops.
Now there is no reason why a package deal can’t be made, that transitions away from the current code to 9-9-9 and then on to Fair Tax over time. For example, we pass a Constitutional Amendment that will cap the 16th amendment at 9%, that will define what can be taxed and how it can be taxed (wages and capital gains, and profits of corporations and LLCs), and at the same time it also enacts the other 9 - NST - by allowing the States to collect it and pass that money up to the feds just like the Fair Tax suggests it should be done.
This Amendment could be triggered to go in effect at a future date, too. It can be passed in 2012 and go in effect on Jan 1 2014, for example. Such a package deal could further, in theory, dictate that 6 years hence both the income and profits taxes automatically repeal in place of the Fair Tax at 23%. That way we get the end game negotiated at the beginning, but we give ourselves and our states 6-8 years to get it implemented.
I think the biggest most important point right now is to get the tax code to be the #1 issue in the election.I am glad you are out there talking about it. I am not opposed to 9-9-9 just because I favor the Fair Tax. I just accept that it may not be possible to get it done in one fell swoop. So the important thing is to get that debate out in the open. Open people’s eyes. Get momentum. And most importantly, let the lines be drawn. I want to know who is in favor of real reform and who will perpetuate the current absurdity.
Congress will have to act if the people really demand it. There is a lot of angst out there.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha .....
Yeah and the original 1913 Top Income Tax Rate was said it would never exceed 7%.
Yeah baby, I’m no SAP. Are you?
PS - Grow a pair and get serious. Stop playing the Stupid Party’s tune and think of the kids cuz your life ain’t permanent here Pal. Quit supporting the tax tinkering and get ready to kick some serious Lib/RINO *ss in 2012 with an all out grassroots assault on the 16th Amendment and an enactment of H.R.25 now in Congress with more than 50 sponsors.
Are you drinking?
Where did that come from?
I wouldn’t spend ten minutes working with someone who responds to people that way.
Good day.
I have confidence that if this were so, Herman Cain would be the last person on earth to propose it.
----
Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it.
www.AnySoldier.com
(An entirely free service)
Reread my post. I am not at all contradicting anything. The vested interests are the Libs/RINOS and they won’t allow the FAIRTAX to pass because that gets rid of the 16th Amendment and the 16th is their hold on power baby. They will fight to their last breath to say you eat dead aborted babies if they find out you support the FAIRTAX.
But the 9-9-9 Plan. Oh well yeah Ok they say, they accept it because they know Cain will lose on the transition to FAIRTAX. They will have their Senators hang it with filibuster and .....
and .....(drum roll) .....tada!
The United Socialist States of America will have:
1. An Income Tax
2. A National Sales Tax
3. A VAT
Ship of Fools, Ship of Fools Baby.
By all means, let’s follow the thinking that if and when ANY Democrat — including one who has eviscerated Obama time and time again, including one who is a billionaire who knows a thing or two about the economy and what is needed to get it on track — if even one such Democrat even THINKS about supporting a GOP idea proposal on the economy, RUN FOR THE HILLS.
THIS PROVES THAT THE GOP PROPOSAL IS POISON!
It couldn’t possibly mean, upon actual evaluation, that the proposal makes so much sense that even some political opponents are willing to admit it.
/s as needed.
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