Posted on 10/15/2011 3:46:42 PM PDT by justsaynomore
Art Laffer (the originator of the Laffer Curve, and inspiration of Reagonomics) breaks down Herman Cain's plan
(Excerpt) Read more at video.foxnews.com ...
Never give liberal Democrats both a federal income tax combined with a federal sales tax. They will increment this plan over the years to 29-29-29.
Thanks for bringing up the Constitutionality aspects of these tax reforms but unfortunately you are off mark.
Congress can indeed pass an indirect tax such as a national sales tax under Article I, Section 8, Clause 1:
The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
It is the “uniformity” requirement of this clause that caused the 16th Amendment to be passed to allow the income tax without apportionment so that CONGRESS COULD DO WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANTED using whatever smoke and mirrors available to them to fool the public.
The uniformity clause is simple and reflects the Founders intent to make taxation in the United States FAIR FOR EVERYONE.
The 16th Amendment proponents turned the fairness aspect of taxation on its head by conceding the income tax was a direct tax and then stripping out the apportionment bond.
It is important to know the history here and also how the FairTax will sail easily in the Pre-1913 Constitution conditions for taxation once the awful 16th Amendment is repealed.
The FairTax code has qualifications, enforcement, NRST and Rebate as well as other necessary components and details to make a tax code that passes Constitutional muster under a system where the 16th does not exist.
In effect the FairTax says that no qualified American will pay federal taxation up to the level of essentials of living and that only above the level of essential living will a National RETAIL Sales Tax (NRST) be imposed.
The way to implement the “no taxation up to the level of essential living” is by rebating taxes to the people up to that level in a UNIFORM manner. There will be no special considerations in the Rebate because the Constitution without the 16th Amendment does not allow it. The 16th Amendment allows for unfairness and for rewarding and punishing based on policy not justice.
Keep the discussion going, others are sure to benefit from it.
My entire point way back up a post # 14
(became distorted downstream)
was that the people in the current system that are free riders (no reportable income, underground work, drug smugglers, welfare recipients, etc.) would be included in the tax base by a national sales tax and would suddenly be included in the system.
One (of the many) thing I find abhorrent with the current system is that non-tax payers vote to increase taxes on the tax payers.
(It’s that whole ancient Roman bread and circuses thing)
Hell,
a national sales tax would even collect a few tax $ from some schmuck Frenchie on a week long vacation to Disneyworld; not to mention all them U.N. folks in New York from around the world that have no taxable U. S. income.
Whatever...
the current system needs to be changed.
At the very least, Cain’s 9-9-9 plan might lead to more debate and understanding of the problems with the current system and a search for possible solutions.
Good!
You know the thing I’ve noticed is, it’s the same people who were over on the thread about Cain’s proposal for an electrified fence along the southern border of the US, calling us all evil, murderers, and worse. There were also a lot of them claiming that the candidate that gave in-state tuition to illegals had a much better plan to secure the border, although he must be keeping it a secret. I’ve only seen 2 candidates actually commit to sealing the border.
I’ve watched the “establishment Republicans, and the libs sit on their fat a$$ess and do nothing on either of these 2 issues for 30 years, and it seems very odd that the first candidate who is actually proposing to do something constructive about a confiscatory, and life controlling tax code, and a border where our enemies can walk across with a suitcase nuke to be planted in front of some kid’s school, seems to be drawing fire from a group of roving critics.
Wonder who they support for President.
I guess the old saying is true if you’re drawing more flak, you must be nearing the target. We knew the establishment Republicans would pull out all the stops to destroy Cain (or Palin had she gotten in), one of them even slipped up and called us Palin supporters, idol worshipers, so we know who these people are.
How do you handle Article 1 section 9 (which is why the 16th amendment was required)?
“No capitation, or other direct tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.”
Interesting observation. The “electrified fence” comment along with the “moat with alligators” comment really exposed alot of detractors for what they are. Also, based on Cain's most recent interviews (this weekend)regarding 999, I think he may have baited his detractors into a similar trap. Look for an OP-ED in major newspapers and new background info on 999 to be released early this week. ;-)
You should use it as a title for a thread. Bet you’ll get a HUGE response.
I don’t argue with your points about the tax system being broken. But let me posit this:
If we had a balanced budget amendment that included the requirement of 2/3rds majority in Both Houses to raise taxes. would you support that?
I think we have strayed so far from the original intent of the founders that they are probably spinning in their graves.
But NOTHING, NO RESTRUCTURING OF THE TAX CODE WILL SOLVE ANY PROBLEM UNLESS WE MAKE CUTS IN DEPTS, SPENDING, EARMARKS ETC ETC ETC. If we don’t find a way, which I believe the 2/3rds majority would put a stake thru the heart of the vampires in D.C., then NO plan will work.
The problem with 999 is the national sales tax will be 29% in a few years. Look at the parasite tax cultists at Zucatti park and their DNC backers.
I see you and raise you one.
How about a 9-9-9 amendment that included the requirement of 2/3rds majority in Both Houses to raise taxes?
First - There is nothing stopping them from changing the rates now and they do. All the time . This is a red herring.
Second - this plan is transparent, so everyone will see what Congress is trying to do if they try to raise rates.
Third - because everyone is paying, there is no class warfare. If they try to raise the rates, there will be public outcry of raising taxes on the poor.
Fourth - Cain will ask Congress to put in 2/3 majority rules to keep from changing rates - if they will is another question. It has been done, historically.
My problem is the sales tax. That is a non starter for me.
Sorry.
Is that crickets I hear?
” 30 years ago Laffer was a Reaganite. Laffer also admits to being a Clintonite”
I used to go to Laffers office in Rolling Hills, Ca., 30 years ago. He was a sharp guy, and we kinda became chums. When he came out for Clinton, I severed ties. He lost it.
“...My problem is the sales tax...”
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I hate all taxes and all of them are flawed in one way or another.
A sales tax is the fairest tax of them all.
9-9-9 spreads the tax burden around and captures a larger base of tax payers.
The only people I know to oppose it are those who currently pay no income tax.
“Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree!”
We live in the Chicago area and pay 7 3/4% state and local tax...Chicago pays 11%. WE LIVE ON A FIXED INCOME. With the rising prices of food, medicine, rent, utilities, etc., we must now make use of food pantries, and we must also decide whether we buy food or medicine. There is no more money in my pocket for my current expenses AND Herman Cain's 9% tax. And for those of you who say I have no skin in this game, and am “getting a free ride,” let me remind you that I have worked since the age of 18, until recently at age 76, and I have contributed to Social Security. Funny thing about aging...the natural aging process and loss of good health forces you to stop working... So much for my so called “free ride.”
I have emailed Herman Cain, since I am not able to determine from his website, how his 9-9-9- tax plan will affect senior citizens. No mention of this is made on his website because Cain's plan will “stick it” to the the most vulnerable age group, who don't have the ability to change their present lot in life due to the aging process and health issues. And without food or medicine, senior citizens will die sooner, rather than later!
I suggest senior citizens and their families write Cain...I have yet to receive any reply from his website. His mailing address is located on the very bottom of his website, www.hermancain.com. Demand that he be explicit and explain how senior citizens will be affected by his 9-9-9 tax plan. THIS IS THE TIME THAT WE MUST VET ALL PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES...ASK THE HARD QUESTIONS AND DEMAND ANSWERS. Stand up and speak out senior citizens..pass this information on to your friends and relatives, your Tea Party mates, everybody.
I agree for the most part with Herman Cain's stand on other issues. But, as Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan is now formulated, Cain WILL NOT get my vote.
www.hermancain.com
Friends for Herman Cain
PO Box 2158
Stockbridge, Georgia 30281
678/601-2772
Email him, write him, call him and ask the hard questions.
” Americans, on the other hand, are the only people in the world who have never been anything but free.”
I thought America was a former British colony and had to win its freedom.
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