Posted on 10/01/2011 6:30:09 AM PDT by tobyhill
Those “facts” have not been established in a court of law. What if Obama says YOU have given up your citizenship by swearing allegiance to Al Qaeda, even asserting that publicly on television, and therefore authorizes your death by drone?
Wouldn’t you have the right to a fair trial?
Shred the constitution??!!! Are you saying in every situation our armed forces or law enforcement officers have to take an American citizen into custody rather than dealing with him with extreme prejudice? If during WWII we saw some known American collaborator with group of Nazis, we’d have to try to arrest him rather than dropping a bomb on them or having a plane strafe the hell out of them?
Imagine this had happened when Bush was President. Congressional Democrats would be filing articles of impeachment.
So then the guys who killed Bonnie and Clyde acted exjudiciously?
Anyone who believes you can defeat armies of warriors who have no fear of death, no respect for human rights, no sense of humanity, and are totally dedicated to the principal of committing genocide against their enemies simply by fighting them as you would fight bank robbers or drug dealers is completely brain dead.
Government killing citizens without trial? How about David Koresh and 90 other men, women, and children?
This just in from congressional republicans - (crickets)
Who cares? I’m glad he’s dead. End of story.
Even Bin Laden, not even a questionable non-citizen, got one.
Exactly...he renounced his citizenship, he just didn’t go to an embassy to do it.
If you point a gun a me I have the right to shoot you dead in self defense. I don't have to worry about your state of mind. And I don't have to get a court order allowing me to shoot you dead.
If the facts and circumstances (like I'm living in a foreign country, I'm a member of Al-Qaeda, I'm a member of the hierarchy of Al-Qaeda, I've repeatedly encouraged and participated in attempted attacks on the United States) the U.S. government has a right and duty to do what is necessary to defend the American people. These facts are somewhat different than someone just peacefully going about his own business. If you don't see that I'm sorry for you.
Al-Qaeda doesn't advertise its membership, it engages in security measures to conceal it, so your hypothetical is foolish in the extreme.
Did the DOJ get an indictment? Again, this was an act of war on the part of Al-Awlaki, not simple bank robbery or anything like that. Also he could be considered a traitor to the US even though he was born in the US by non-US parents.
Shouldn’t the court decide whether he renounced his citizenship or do you believe the justice dept should do so?
A simple indictment or a court ruling would have alleviated any question of legality.
People with an attitude such as yours frighten me.
Treason is a criminal offense and would require an indictment through the courts.
My fear is this sets a precedence that puts the DOJ in charge of judge, jury and executioner.
“Al-Qaeda doesn’t advertise its membership...”
In a way, they do. However, by the time credit is taken for one its member’s suicide bombings, they’re out another member.
My reasoning is that Al-Awlaki committed acts of war and was a combatant thereby loosing whatever protection he may have had under the Constitution. He also was just an anchor baby and therefor he felt no allegiance to the US. He went overseas to fight America and Americans as a combatant. He was probably responsible for American troop deaths as well. Anyway, it’s a moot point. He’s dead.
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part III > § 1481
§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions
(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or
(4)
(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or
(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or
(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or
(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or
(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.
(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.
All the justification to kill him was there but the DOJ could have gotten a very simple indictment once they knew the connection between him and the Ft. Hood Shooter and underwear bomber.
This is the type of thing that make me feel very uncomfortable with this administration even though I know I have nothing to hide.
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