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1 posted on 09/30/2011 8:42:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

[In short, it is somewhere between folly and economic suicide to implement a national salestax, even at a modest rate, without simultaneously repealing the 16th Amendment to the Constitution (which permits a national income tax.) ]

I agree completely!


2 posted on 09/30/2011 8:45:50 AM PDT by KansasGirl
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I don’t like articles that compare our tax rates and Europe’s tax rates. European tax rates cover their healthcare, and lots of other social amenities...not saying it’s right to have the gov’t give those perks...just saying comparing our tax rates and European tax rates is like comparing apples and oranges.


3 posted on 09/30/2011 8:48:10 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I’d probably end up paying more taxes under his plan, but would probably end up with more money because my employer and our clients would pay fewer taxes.

Never looked at the details but it seems logical.


4 posted on 09/30/2011 8:48:26 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

You must give Mr. Cain credit.

At least he is not responsible for the
Gardasil-PerryCARE fiasco or the RomneyCARE fiasco,
or the open border RINOs.


5 posted on 09/30/2011 8:48:39 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

He should change it to a 999—9+9 plan. The last 2 nines when added together equals 18, symbolizing a constitutional amendment limiting federal spending to 18% of GDP.


6 posted on 09/30/2011 8:48:52 AM PDT by grumpa
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The only real way to get tax reform is to eliminate all “Hidden” taxes and outlaw withholding from paychecks. If the citizen had to save up money to pay taxes quarterly, no politician would ever dare raise taxes ever again.


7 posted on 09/30/2011 8:49:14 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Until 'spending' is addressed and curbed,
tax schemes are not going to resolve anything.

8 posted on 09/30/2011 8:50:11 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Oh, brother. This idiot assumes that a VAT tax and a national sales tax are the same thing. They're not even close. A VAT tax is a Value Added Tax, which means that the value added at each stage of the production process is taxed based on the incremental value produced. As Friedman pointed out decades ago, this is one of the most inefficient taxes you can have. He goes on to say that something as simple as a loaf of bread has 67 steps to produce. As a result, the bureaucracy created to administer the tax would be huge, much larger than the current IRS.

I think the 999 Plan is a good one, provided the current IRS Code goes out the window when it's implemented. Indeed, US taxpayers should insist on this as a precondition to its acceptance. Otherwise, you'll have both.

9 posted on 09/30/2011 8:50:46 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are dumber than soup.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Once again an author with a welded shut mind deliberately misleads to avoid rationally discussing Cain's plan As the author knows, comparing it to a VAT which taxes at every level of production and the 9-9-9 plan which only taxes it at point of sale is completely dishonest.

In addition the argument that you "must repeal the 16th Amendment 1st" is nonsense.

What is to prevent Congress from raising tax rates 20-30-50% right now?

The same political pressures that keep that from happening right now, apply even more so to the 9-9-9 plan

Since everyone pays the 9-9-9 tax it is impossible to demagogue raising it as "making the rich pay their fair share". Everyone know raising it means they will pay more

So rather then cling to their preconceived dogmas out of an emotional attachment to a certain candidate, the critics of 9-9-9 might want to try actually ADDRESSING THE FACTS for a change instead of engaging in this baseless demagoguery and fear mongering.

10 posted on 09/30/2011 8:53:50 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The purpose of the 9-9-9 Plan is to provide a transition to the Repeal of the 16th Amendment and transition to the Fair Tax. It does this by making Federal taxes more visible and simple. Employees will get used to having more in their paychecks. The paperwork and time spent calculating what to do based on the tax code goes away. It is a real “Change” that everyone will notice. It can't be implemented unless small-government citizens are able to shape the legislative and executive branches in 2012. The ruling class will not do this. I liked “Fed Up!”, but Rick Perry is still to close to a ruling class member for my tastes. Herman Cain is the only one in the race now that fits the bill. If he had Sara Palin for a VP we would really be able to do some “changing and abolishing!” Also, I could recycle my McCain-Palin bumper stickers with a pair of scissors! ;-)
11 posted on 09/30/2011 8:55:02 AM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

So far as I’m concerned, the VAT tax is the crack cocaine of the statist bureaucracy, insidious in that it is so hidden, and economically deadly in that it can be raised to such high rates. One of my major fears with the Obama cabal is that they would be able to introduce a VAT, which I’m sure they’d do if they were able to.

Nonetheless, I might be willing to support a 9-9-9 since it is a nice balance of taxation of income and consumption, and since it affects everyone equally (how does one keep income taxes at reasonable rates if 47% of the population pays no income tax?).

However, in order to get my support for 9-9-9, Cain (or anyone else) would have to come up with an ironclad process that would make increases in the VAT portion extremely difficult, if not impossible. I don’t know if you can bind a future Congress by requiring a 75% super majority to increase the VAT part, but if something like that could be done, I’d probably go along with it.


12 posted on 09/30/2011 8:55:34 AM PDT by Stosh
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Don’t ever confuse how taxes are collected with how much taxes are collected. If we don’t control overspending, in the long run it won’t matter. We’re on an unsustainable trajectory right now.


16 posted on 09/30/2011 8:57:12 AM PDT by umgud
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Hauser’s Law better stated is that no formula for taxes will generate a sustained netting of more than 19.5 percent of GNP. Super-confisacatory taxes will shrink the GNP and a one-year windfall should be compared as a percent to the previous larger GNP.

Big Bro can only tax so much before the big money scrambles for cover. The gov gains nothing from that gold buried in the backyard and the gov gains nothing from unreported sales and transactions of a growing off-paper economy.

19 posted on 09/30/2011 8:57:58 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American that a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

So how is the present system working? Not so good, is it...

We have to be open to new ideas....


23 posted on 09/30/2011 9:00:57 AM PDT by Former MSM Viewer
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Ahh. The Perry camp goes on the attack of Herman Cain after he them in Florida. Gotta remember to buy more popcorn next time I'm in the grocery store.
25 posted on 09/30/2011 9:06:52 AM PDT by McGruff (Vetting - The process of examination and evaluation of a candidate's record.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Hauser's law posits that the federal government cannot take more than about 19.5% of national income through taxation

We're close to that already, at about 18%. [link] or google "GDP" and follow the graph shown.

27 posted on 09/30/2011 9:09:20 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The only way I will support ANY national consumption tax like the FairTax, is if the Sixteenth Amendment is repealed FIRST. Not “oh, we’ll repeal it later.” Not “we promise to keep the income tax down to 9%.” The ability for the Federal government to levy an income tax AT ALL *MUST* be removed from them FIRST before a consumption tax can be implemented. Otherwise we will end up, in very short order, with crushing income taxes AND a European-style double-digit VAT (because they will quickly turn a simple sales tax into a VAT).

}:-)4


28 posted on 09/30/2011 9:10:07 AM PDT by Moose4 ("Oderint dum metuant" -- "Let them hate, as long as they fear." (Lucius Accius, c. 130 BC))
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

“. The plan would eliminate almost all deductions. “

This line alone tells you everything you need to understand about this writer.

He believes that your money belongs to the Washington instead of the people as Herman Cain believes. To this the current communist Progressive tax is better since it allows Washington to ONLY give you back 25 cents for SOME of your tax dollars. After all that money belongs to Washington and not to the person who earned their money.

The 9,9,9 plan is very easy and would eliminate many lobbyist. This is why the writer is against this plan.


37 posted on 09/30/2011 9:45:36 AM PDT by Sprite518
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
From my 2010 return accounting for all my deductions, My tax owed came to just a little under 9 percent. So with Cain's plan IF that means no more deductions, or tax credits I would be paying a few hundred dollars more than I do now. But if things stay the same as they are now the deductions I take now will become less and less with each year, as I pay down my home, and a big hit when my child graduates and moves out. And that will be when I can lease afford the tax hit, when I'm approaching retirement.

So with Cain's plan or any of the similar flat taxes proposed by others, my taxes remain constant, and there will be no darker days on the horizon to look forward too.

38 posted on 09/30/2011 10:01:32 AM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Any business that has more than about 5% of the gross revenue going to overhead, things that just mind the farm, is headed for broke in my view. You can’t run a business with 20% of the revenue going to stuff that does not produce things. In the case of a government you could argue that the military, highways and such produce things but welfare DOES NOT produce anything but more welfare and more babies and more dependents that don’t produce.

Hauser’s Law, named for its creator, economist Kurt Hauser of the Hoover Institution. Hauser’s law posits that the federal government cannot take more than about 19.5% of national income through taxation and that soaking the rich (or those whom President Obama defines as rich) will not generate the tax revenue


39 posted on 09/30/2011 10:02:20 AM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half the people are below average.)
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