Posted on 09/19/2011 11:04:53 AM PDT by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears
A southern California couple has been fined $300 dollars for holding Christian Bible study sessions in their home, and could face another $500 for each additional gathering.
City officials in San Juan Capistrano, Calif. say Chuck and Stephanie Fromm are in violation of municipal code 9-3.301, which prohibits religious, fraternal or non-profit organizations in residential neighborhoods without a permit. Stephanie hosts a Wednesday Bible study that draws about 20 attendees, and Chuck holds a Sunday service that gets about 50.
The Fromms appealed their citations but were denied and warned future sessions would carry heftier penalties. A statement from the Pacific Justice Institute, which is defending the couple in a lawsuit against the city, said Chuck Fromm was also told regular gatherings of three or more people require a conditional use permit, which can be costly and difficult to obtain.
How dare they tell us we cant have whatever we want in our home, Stephanie Fromm told the Capistrano Dispatch. We want to be able to use our home. Weve paid a lot and invested a lot in our home and backyard I should be able to be hospitable in my home.
According to the Dispatch, the Fromms live in a neighborhood with large homes and have a corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn on their property, so parking and noise arent a problem.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
By WWII, I meant in Nazi Germany.
It’s not the place, it’s what’s in the heart.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:21-24 (KJV)
We must obey God rather than human beings!’
For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.
I didn’t write that. God did.
You need discernment. I listen to God first, then man IF it isn't in conflict with God.
29 Peter and the other apostles replied: We must obey God rather than human beings!'
I didn't write that either. God did.
Rom 13:1-2 MKJV
(1) Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.
(2) So that the one resisting the authority resists the ordinance of God; and the ones who resist will receive judgment to themselves.
Sorry. Didn’t write that. Just quoting it.
Exactly, And God put those leaders there
Rom 13:1-2 MKJV
(1) Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.
(2) So that the one resisting the authority resists the ordinance of God; and the ones who resist will receive judgment to themselves.
OK, I admit I didn’t read your entire post. Now that I read the rest, I can say this: you are even more wrong than I thought.
Ahhh, yes, the old “property values” argument.
Tell ya what. Let’s really keep property values high.
No blacks.
No hispanics.
Jews are OK because they usually have money...
If you are more worried about keeping your nickle than you are about unalienable rights, you might be in the wrong place here on FR...
Again, you need discernment. Not all of man's "rules" are to be obeyed. Man is wicked in his heart. But God is THE authority and is right in all His ways.
Now, in case anyone missed it (and in reading through the posts, it seems that is the case), the early church did not have stone edifices with stained glass windows and pipe organs. Today when we hear the word 'church' we tend to think that it is a building. Wrong. The church is the people. The building can burn down, but the church will still be there - they can sit on the lawn, they would still be the church. The early church met in peoples houses (gasp - wonder what the Emperor thought of that...) and as authority for that statement from Holy Writ I recommend that you look at Colossians 4:15 paying attention to the words "and the church in her house."
Getting stuck on Romans 13 while ignoring other passages that speak to the issue most certainly will leave such a person with no alternative but to accept the mark in the forehead or hand because the government said you have to and God wrote it..
Nine, according to the article.
Uh, SJC is more than just Ortega Highway, Camino Capistrano, and Los Rios. The whole joint’s pretty dead on Sunday mornings too, unless you want to count the 5 South.
Yeah, I am “more worried about keeping [my] nickle than unalienable rights...”
Because (one more time): ALL your rights derive from property rights. Without property rights, you have no rights. None.
And as far as my not belonging on FR... I bet a paycheck most Freepers understand what the above statement means, who said it, and why.
And thanks for bringing race into it! Are you sorry yet you voted for Obama?
Here’s what God said:
Rom 13:1-2 MKJV
(1) Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.
(2) So that the one resisting the authority resists the ordinance of God; and the ones who resist will receive judgment to themselves.
Argue with God, not me.
It certainly appears that (perhaps) overzealous bureaucrat(s) is/are misinterpreting the Ordinance since the table also lists the following under "Notes and Exceptions": Includes churches, temples, synagogues, monasteries, religious retreats, and other places of religious worship and other fraternal and community service organizations.
It certainly appears that the intent of thios part of the Ordinance is to empower the City to have some zoning control over where, how and how many Churches, Moose Lodges, VFW Halls, etc., are constructed in residential areas.
In my opinion, a privately held Bible study, held in a private home, regardless of its size, would not fall under this part of this ordinance (although other portions of the Ordinance may, indeed, restrict how many cars can park on residential lots, etc.). Depending upon the behavior of, and decisions taken by, the government officials of the city during the couple's appeal, this COULD remain a simple Zoning/"Use"-definition issue, instead of turning in to some kind of 1st Amendment fight.
No it isn’t.
It is obvious you have not even read the Ordinance in question.
I could definitely see them canceling the scheduled meetings on the 23rd and 26th so that people could stay at home with their families during the week of Christmas.
;-)
I'm saying God may have called them to do so. If God calls you to do something, you don't substitute something else because you are afraid some curmudgeon might get their nose out of joint.
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