That's what I was thinking until I saw the photo below. Looks like there is a panel right behind the seat, unless it's open below the shoulders.
Posted on 09/19/2011 7:18:13 AM PDT by PilotDave
The NTSB has recovered 'components' which may be part of the P-51's horizontal stab and elevator... possibly even the elevator trim tab, which is a specified point of inquiry (as noted in previous ANN reports).
The NTSB has received a significant amount of photographic and video evidence -- some of which show the process whereby the elevator trim tab separated from the horizontal stabilizer.
There is no evidence of the much-reported 'Mayday' call.
We are hearing a number of calls for additional regulation and FAA supervision... despite the fact that this is the first time in nearly 60 years that a spectator at an American aviation event has been killed. A quick perusal of a number of road racing events shows dozens of people/spectators killed as a result of their attendance at such exciting activities (and just in the last few years!)... there are spectator tragedies on record, as well, involving boat races, motorcycle races, BICYCLE races, sled races, ski races, horse races, you name it.
(Excerpt) Read more at aero-news.net ...
“Out of curiosity where did you come up with the 20 G figure?”
Well, he was indicating 400+ mph when the initial violent pitch up occurred. In that moment he had plenty of energy to pull in excess of 20g’s. For example, the unlimited aerobatic guys routinely pull 12+ g’s (positive and negative) and they are generally indicating under 300mph. They are pulling (pushing) as hard as they can too.
So, in the ill fated mustang, figure 430 mph indicated, full stick deflection, near instant onset of 20 g’s or so.
Planes are usually limited to 8-9 g’s or so due to structure of the craft and health of the pilot.
War story time... I was dogfighting in an F-16 once and pulled over 10g’s (sustained) because the computer burped. That was heavy man.
That's what I was thinking until I saw the photo below. Looks like there is a panel right behind the seat, unless it's open below the shoulders.
Also remember, if this was a flutter event, we are not talking about just positive G's. We are talking positive and negative g’s, and alternating between them VERY quickly. Even at just a couple of g’s, if you shake someone back and forth at about 20hz (completely reasonable range for flutter)their lights will go out pretty quickly.
If the pilot's shoulder harnesses failed and allowed him to slump forward (as several have speculated), it was probably the acceleration caused by the back and forth shaking that did it. There is one picture looking down on the aircraft that appears to show something white towards the front of the cockpit. Could be a reflection but it could be the pilot slumped forward. It's the one picture I can't find in high resolution on the web.
And thank you for your service.
Rather judgemental, aren't we??
"Button describes what happened to his airplane in Saturday's heat race. Apparently, the left elevator trim tab came off the airplane at speed, causing the bird to abruptly pitch up, subjecting driver Hannah to over 10 G's of deceleration forces, and causing him to lose consciousness! When he came to, the raceplane had climbed to over 9,000 feet of altitude. A shaken Hannah regained control and brought Voodoo in for a safe landing. Suspected structural damage kept the sleek raceplane out of Sunday's championship competition"
On the Ghost the G forces and centrifugal load caused the tail wheel to open, not pilot induced. In one photo taken as the Ghost rolled inverted Jimmy is forced way up forward nearly eating the instrument panel. It could be possible that the seat support failed to some degree as well, we will never know. It is also likely Jimmy experienced G-LOC. It also appeared that the plane was rolling on its own. In the last pictures the stab is neutral meaning Jimmy is not consciously pulling back on the stick, the linkage is broken, G forces make it impossible for him to move, or a combination of all the above. Sorry for him, his family, the injured, and prayers for all.
Why is it that the knee jerk response to any issue is to limit liberties in some way?
A box has already been built around us and your response has the effect of bringing the walls in closer.
How long have you been in favor of authoritarian regimes that dictate all aspects of citizens lives?
This is not a criticism of the racers, but there is one thing I have always wondered about.
After the aircraft are flown in, they make many changes to them to prepare them for racing. I wonder why they don’t have a set of elevators and rudder with no tabs they can install for the race? I’m certain during the race they are flying the aircraft constantly. It’s not like they need to be able to trim it to fly hands off.
They could have some fixed tabs if necessary - but with all the problems that seem to be tab related, why not just delete them for the race? I know nobody would want to fly one across the country with no tabs, but as short as the races are, I just don’t know why they don’t delete them.
“Like the gentleman who flies his warbird low and loud over houses (including mine) early on certain Sunday mornings. Or anyone on a Fartley-Davidson “motorcycle”.”
Amen to that. A neighbor a few houses down the street regularly blasts his Fartley ridiculously early on Sunday (and other) mornings. Wish I could blast an air horn in the rude bastard’s ear in the middle of the night while he’s sleeping so he could experience what he’s dishing out to everyone else in the neighborhood.
The Mustangs fly with full down trim tab as they are pulling on average 3 to 4 G's the whole race and more in the tighter turns. This is barn storm racing and pure man machine at their limits. No G suits or servo mechanical controls with computers and sensors controlling unstable aircraft. I am sure if they could find a way to remove the trim tabs and safely trim these highly modified aircraft they would have a long time ago.
If you think they are flying under 500 ft you can turn them in. It would amaze the hobbyists if they knew how little adoration we feel when they make their noise overhead.
The original 51’s had an armoured plate immediately behind the seat/head area. Obviously, this would have been removed long ago, but you’re right about modifications...it will take one of Leeward’s crew familiar with the Galloping Ghost to verify any such ‘theories’.
Read the article in one of my previous posts. The craft had had ten feet cut off the wingspread and these mods were made for speed. It’s not even the plane it claims to be and Jimmy Leeward didn’t even know how it would perform. This is like some quack who performs unproven surgery. He’ll deserve his infamy richly
“The Mustangs fly with full down trim tab as they are pulling on average 3 to 4 G’s the whole race and more in the tighter turns.”
OK, although if you go to the web site below, there are a lot of images of the fastest Mustang racer, and it sure looks like the tabs are faired to me. If there is any deflection at all, sure seems like it could be handled with a fixed tab for racing only.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dago-Red-Mustang-Air-Race/146686761323#
Problem with limiting old craft—theGalloping Ghost was not an antique unless you just see the style. The older version would have been slower and easier to control. It’s like replacing the blade and handle of an old ax. It had been modified to attain a blistering speed. At the turn, it fell apart.
My elevation is about 400 feet above that of the background farmhouse. You don't see the many golf-course houses directly below the plane.
"photoshopped" meaning they altered the image (removed the pilot) or just that it's misoriented?
That Photo has been photo-shopped...
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