You know, you can have the best of both those worlds. There's a version of the Belgian Shepherd that's not recognized by the AKC, called the Lakenois. It's essentially a wire-haired Malinois...
Posted on 08/23/2011 1:15:51 PM PDT by markomalley
Günther Bonke, a dog expert for the police in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), said on Monday the trusty German Shepherd, or Alsatian, was slowly being replaced by the Belgian Shepherd. The breed, also known as the Malinois, is considered more dependable and robust than its German rival.
Bonke said NRW had only 26 German Shepherds still working alongside the police compared to 281 Malinois. He explained that not all German states bred their own dogs, making the often cheaper Belgian Shepherd even more attractive when bought in bulk.
NRW, which borders Belgium, has been breeding the Malinois since 1988. Over the years, the police discovered the dogs were healthier and more courageous than their German counterparts. Belgian Shepherds can also be used as sniffer dogs, unlike German Shepherds, which are largely limited to security details.
The trend to Malinois has also spread to Germany’s federal police, however, they haven’t entirely given up on other breeds like the Alsatian.
“We are not planning exclusively with these dogs for the future,” said a federal police spokesman.
Officials in North Rhine-Westphalia aren’t only betting on the Belgian dogs either. The state's police pack of 350 canines includes Dutch Shepherds, Giant Schnauzers, several mutts, as well as one Boxer and one Rottweiler.
You’ll note, this ISN’T just “evil American breeders”.
The entire breed is a mess now, and frankly I suspect the much-maligned “backyard breeders” who don’t have a stake in it have better stock than the lot of all the show-based “reputable” breeders all over this world.
My accountant had a Golden that lived to 16. Of course, I’m spoiled because my previous Golden made it to 15 1/2, and she had a good life until the last 1/2 year when she really began to degenerate.
But, I’ve known several people (including my son) who lost Rottweilers at between 8 and 10 years. My daughter’s Standard Poodle, on the other hand, made it to 16 1/2.
I always figure, however, that anything beyond 10 years is a bonus for a large dog. Unless it is MY dog, of course. I want MY dog to live to 20! LOL
I think the problem is AKC.
A dog that has AKC standards doesn’t necessarily meet the breed standard for it’s working ability.
You know, you can have the best of both those worlds. There's a version of the Belgian Shepherd that's not recognized by the AKC, called the Lakenois. It's essentially a wire-haired Malinois...
Cute dog! Looks like it has poodle in its bloodline because we are all so familiar with the Labradoodle, Goldenpoo mixes. If you owned that dog, you’d be answering questions about it on every walk!
...although I'm also kind of intrigued by the (unrecognized, and so-called) Panda Shepherds:
I assume that you are referring to Malinois when you say BSDs, but my comments apply equally to Groendals and Tervurens...
It is sort of hard to generalize across breeds and bloodlines inside breeds, but here is my experience: most Mals and their relatives are very handler focused and sensitive. This might seem to make them somewhat easier to train, but that comes at the cost of being less resilient to trainer mistakes. You can ruin one of these dogs much easier that you can most GSDs. That said, however, certain bloodlines in GSDs (older East German and some high or show lines) are just as handler focused and sensitive, and can have similar training results and issues.
As for being biddable, I don’t think either breed has a lock on this, as there are bloodlines in each breed that contain this trait. Think of it as a personality trait in people, and you will understand what I am getting at... And the independent watch dog trait you mentioned is actually more related to territorial guarding, and is present in almost all dogs, particular those bred for herding and work. So, this will be present in varying degrees in both breeds.
Bottom line: if you are looking for a certain type of dog, look at the breed, look at different bloodlines inside the breed, and then talk with trainiers who have similar training techniques as you plan on using, and get a dog that is compatible with you and your training methods.
Actually there really isn’t that much difference in the standards.
The problem is like the Constitution - the elite pay lip service while in truth ignoring the document.
“Panda Shepherds” are German Shepherds, just with coloration “defects”.
Frankly we need to allow the various colors because many of them are in better conformational shape than the accepted types in the dominant bloodlines.
You are probably right. I let my peeves with the AKC slip into my judgement.
>>> “Dutch shepherds? Are they long haired?”
Yeah, closely resembles the post #33 dog, but different coloring. The one or two I’ve seen had a mottled pattern like brindle or tortoiseshell calico.
Striking dogs. Pound-for-pound one of the strongest bites measured as psi.
Hey, lookit the short-haired one in post 66. I guess they come in both flavors!
Cool looking dogs!
I had never heard of them before this thread.
Interesting.
Both my Mals had an import Male parent from Belgium, and neither of them ever bit anyone, but my male could do a very good Cujo imitation when strangers came to our front door.
He would stop as soon as I told him to.
The United Kennel Club is a better organization for standards, in my humble opinion. Going to a UKC breed specific show is like watching paint dry.
The judge goes over each dog in depth, judging not just “looks”/structure, but also temperament, attention, drive, and working ability. The OWNER must show their own dog at a UKC show, no handlers allowed!
And, each dog is given a report on their dog, by the judge, with comments on everything the judge noticed.
If anyone is interested in getting a good Belgian, whether Mal, Groen, or Terv, I would recommend going to a UKC show, talking with the breeders showing thier dogs, finding out what their breeding program is about, meeting their dogs, and forming a relationship with the breeder that seems to have dogs you feel comfortable with.
Then, be ready for a serious interview about your facilities, your experience with dogs, your intended activities, etc. Good breeders will not sell a dog to someone they do not feel will give the dog a good forever home, and you will have to sign a contract, and will have to neuter a “pet” quality dog.
Excellent answer. Thank you very much and I find dog breeds to be very interesting.
I am an American Brittany man myself and get my dogs from Beeline Brittany. (I know you didn’t ask but I love these dogs so much I take very opportunity to say something.)
Just to add to what you said, my first brit was the last dog taken from the litter and his breeder said he would not make a good companion dog as he was always going off by himself. After working with him for a few years, what I found was that he just had a much longer range and had fantastic drive (more german pointer than a german pointer). He was all work. He would even nip at other dogs if they distracted him while he was working. Once the sun went down (no birds to look at), he was a great companion. This breeder is the top guy in the breed and even he didn’t see it. I was lucky. His grandfather was an all breed champion and I’m convinced that mine would have been too if he had a better owner. (Odd to feel unworthy of a dog, isn’t it?)
I’m sorry jacquej but I’m going to have to disagree in part. IMHO, shows and AKC standards might be fine for companion breed but working or sporting breeds, etc. can only be judged doing what they were breed to do.
No, I have had and been around several dogs that were better than me! (Everyone needs to be humbled by a dog once or twice...)
Never been around Brittany’s, but my wife has and she has nothing but good to say about them...
How do the Belgian Mals do with rambunctious kids? My GSD’s have always been fantastic with rough and tumble little boys. My own kids, and now my grandkids. I’ve always considered the German Shepherd the perfect family dog. Smart, tolerant of kids but still protective of the family and property.
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