Posted on 08/02/2011 5:54:56 AM PDT by Kaslin
I was not saying it it should be underestimated or avoided. Kiddie porn is something that every parent unfortunately, must learn about in order to protect their children from it. But it is not something we need to tolerate in our communities either.
Knowing that passages such as these are in the Koran should educate all Christians that Moslems cannot be your true friends and still be faithful to Allah. So, at a minimum, be wary of everything they say and do.
Koran 5:49-51 “O you who believe Take not the Jews and Christians as your friends… and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, surely he is one of them.”
Koran 8:12 “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. This is because they acted adversely to Allah and his messenger”
Koran 5:33-34 “The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power..” Koran 9:5 “When the sacred months are past, kill those who join other gods wherever you find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them with every kind of ambush…..”
Koran 9:29-30 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah…. The Jews say Ezra is the son of God, and the Christians say Christ is the son of God…. Allah’s curse be on them….”
Koran 9:3 “Announce painful punishment on those who disbelieve..”
Koran 8:55 “Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve…”
Koran 8:39 “And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah”
Koran 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah… nor follow the religion of truth…out of those who have been given the book (Christians and Jews) until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and are in a state of subjugation”
Koran 9:123 “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil)”
When I saw the picture of the troops marching, I couldn’t help myself from cringing and thinking ‘don’t they know about land mines’?
Until they burn their “Book of Stanic Verses”, islam will always remain a political movement like communism that hides behind the false veil of religion.
“A muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize her”. (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990)
Your post was so right that I might just print it out and frame that post, Elendur.
(Applause!)
And I have a bridge to sell you.
I would recommend not using the word pedophile the thought police are everyplace now a days and there has been a number of people dragged through courts for using the word.
Just lay out the facts without using modern terms.
Pedophile in Mohammad's day only meant "friendly love" or "friendship" which doesn't means what it does today. So personally I don't think he was a Pedophile. He more then likely had sex with Aisha at six years old when he was 53 years old not likely at 9 yo. Aisha was there when they first had sex yet she never went to Medina which is where Aisha was when she was 9 yo. Either the scribe was wrong or Aisha is wrong and her mother wasn't there.
excellent analysis, trd
Perhaps -- if it ceases to be Islam.
Best simple answer, imo, in this thread.
Actually, one can reasonably argue that Islam has already been *reformed* (in a kinder, gentler & more modern ways) - The Baha'i Faith is a very good example of Islam *reformed* by the mentioned definition.
The Baha'i faith has its origins in Shia Islam (which is a main branch of Islam itself). It came into existence in the early 19th century in Iran. The original founders of the faith were ALL born & practicing Shia Moslems & thereafter most of its followers were born Shia Moslems too.
The faith based its original & core tenets on & drew from the Koran. It also very much recognizes & includes practices by other Abrahamic faiths, such as Judaism & Christianity. As well as incorporting elements & concepts from Zoroastrianism. The Baha'i faith is also messianic; which means it believes in the (second Coming) of the Messiah.
However, the Baha'i Faith, now, considers itself an "independent religion", yet an Abrahamic one. (The other classified Abrahamic religions being Judaism, Christianity & Islam).
But, the Baha'i faith, is not only Not recognized by Shia, Sunni or other mainstream sects of Islam & most moslems, but Baha'is are actively persecuted by them in a variety of Moslem countries, not just Iran. The Baha'is are commonly known as heretics & apostates in Moslem countries. That's since early 19th century to date.
I guess, when we've a firm definition of what is *reform* in Islam, and when, how & by whom that *reform* will be or should be officially accepted, then we may rejoice. Bearing in mind that Islam has been around for almost 1400 yrs already, w/out *reform*.
Exactly.
Sorry Cronos if I misunderstand your post. Some info:
>>>”Since the fall of the Caliphate in 1918, only in Iran has there been a merging.”<<<
Which Caliphate & Iran? Since Moslem invasion of Iran in the 7th century AD, Islam & State have been intertwined, continually.
>>>”In Saudi Arabia the Sauds are deeply tied in with the Wahabs and probably close to that merge but not completely.”<<<
“Saudi” Arabia, House of Saud, officially came into existence in 1932, with the help of the British, and as a result of an amalgamation between 2 Arabian tribes or kingdoms being Hejaz & Najd (Nejad). Before (during Ottoman Empire rule), and after, Arabia or Saudi Arabia has always been the cradle of Islam. Islam & State have Never been separated. No matter who ruled Arabia. Regardless of House of Saud (Salafis or Wahhabis).
>>>>”In the case of other Moslem states it is not merged to the extent that they are one and the same.”<<<<
Which Moslem countries?
Most Moslem countries I can think of have had Islam & State *very much* merged for centuries since Islamic invasion. (Turkey has been an exception since Ataturk). Unless you are referring to some colonial British or French influences & a few respective laws incorporated in countries such as Tunisia, Algeria, and other artificially created countries/borders such as Syria & Jordan. Regardless, a few British & French influenced laws, ultimately, mean not much at all in mentioned moslem countries.
Pedophile in Mohammad’s day only meant “friendly love” or “friendship” which doesn’t means what it does today. So personally I don’t think he was a Pedophile.
///
first Steve, i admire your personal page.
you even have the info about the missing page in the divorce documents. good research!
...but as for Aisha, modern or ancient, it was NOT normal for an age 50+ man to have sex with an age 9 girl!
her father, believing Mohammad to be the personal messenger of God, still objected initially, saying she was too young.
(which is why Mohammad agreed to delay from age 6 until 9.)
the misinformation about it, is taquiyya.
i heard personally, an Imam near D.C. who was trained in prestigious Al-Azhar University in Egypt,
ADMIT that Aisha was age 9 when Mohammad had sex with her.
and Aisha’s OWN hadith, talks about how she was playing with her dolls when Mohammad took her away.
and it is true, that women married younger, in ancient times. but no culture EVER considered it normal, to have sex with children not even menstruating yet!
(and again, Aisha’s own family objected initially, instead of considering it an “honor”.)
.
also, IMPORTANT quotes by B4Ranch in #101 !
he and bayouranger have done great work at educating me and others here! many thanks to both of you.
and great post by aruanan. not just the Wahhabists, but several times, Islam has been “reformed”, to conform more stricter, and more with the original. And no further changes have been allowed, since the 4 schools were “locked”:
” Poor guy doesn’t appear to realize that Islam has been reformed and the militant jihadis and the Taliban are the result. Whatever was bad about it 100 years ago has been reformed to be so much worse. “
“modern secular” Turkey is another great example.
Islam NEVER becomes more peaceful and tolerant, except temporarily.
I also looked up to see if there was any marriages of extreme ages in western society. the most extreme age of the girl and how old the groom differences was with a 10 yo to a prince Isaac II Angelos of 27 year old and it was purely over politics.
Old China it was said the woman moved into the home of the groom before they are married so she can work the farm (which means they had to be old enough to work) but don't get married until she is older. I can not seem to find ages of these marriages.
thanks. and again, you do have great links on your page.
(that topic is another hobby of mine.)
as for marriage, it actually isn’t that rare for young children to be married. in India particularly, you can find even INFANT marriages. and in royal families.
...and Muslims use these, to mislead people.
i also once did research on ancient greece, china, etc.
and except for some stuff by a feminist with a clear agenda of hatred for men, found no evidence of any culture that endorsed marriage with actual sex, with a girl too young to menstruate.
so respectfully, i will stick with the label of “pedophile” for Mohammad.
especially since he “looked on her with desire” when she was age 6...
and, that is why i specifically said “sex”, not marriage:
...but as for Aisha, modern or ancient, it was NOT normal for an age 50+ man to have sex with an age 9 girl!
and, it is legal in some Muslim countries, for men to marry, (including sex!) with girls even younger than 9.
(like that brave girl that asked for a divorce, at age 8!)
Islam is the ONLY cause, i’ve ever found, for allowing this.
and it’s because the “perfect man”, that all men are told to emulate, married Aisha at 6, and had sex with her at 9...
Let me ask you a question.
Bob Hope would most likely labeled himself as a gay and happy person. If you were going to describe Bob Hope today would you use the terms of his day or what is PC today?
Personally I like the idea of not using PC terms of today for the time period we are speaking of. If that makes sense?
Pedophile was another term that changed it's meaning 180 degrees. The literal term used to mean "child friendship" during the time of Mohammad. Which is a complement for his day.
I refused to give Mohammad a complement even if that isn't the intent. Mohammad used a child for his sexual gratification he wasn't a friend of the child.
Personally I like the idea of not using PC terms of today for the time period we are speaking of. If that makes sense?
///
ahh! now i understand.
yes, and i agree!
i’m old enough, that i remember liking the word “gay”.
but yes, i would describe Bob Hope in by modern definitions, not those of his day. language changes and evolves, even if we don’t like the changes.
and by the modern definition of pedophile as a disgusting sexual pervert, Mohammad (pbuh) IS!
(and much more.
raping a woman who’s husband had just been killed...
is outright evil. and he personally did that also, according to their OWN literature. which also talks about his playing with his wives WHILE they were on their periods...)
but to be crystal clear, i would be happy to use another term, that conveys the proper meaning, in any age.
if you know some concise alternate terms, i would seriously use them. for now, i will try to avoid pedophile, and perhaps use “sexual degenerate”.
It is very important to understand that Islam is not so much a religion then it is a political order.
i agreed with the previous.
and i agree with most of this.
Islam IS a social and political system.
however, i emphatically disagree,
that it is not so much a religion.
Islam began as a religious experience in the cave.
it grew as a RELIGION over many years.
the “revelations” grew, and ending up creating the complete system, as a byproduct.
Islam absolutely is a religion.
albeit one unlike any other in the world.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.