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Eliot Engel with a good idea? Will wonders ever cease? This sounds quite feasible, IMHO, than compressed natual gas as vehicular fuel.
1 posted on 08/01/2011 2:23:38 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I would look really hard at the combustion byproducts of methanol. One of the reasons methanol continues to not really catch on is because there are some really nasty issues with it. Uncombusted methanol getting into the water table can eventually cause blindness, and one of the byproducts is large quantities of aldehydes. Like formaldehyde. Which does all sorts of wonderful things to live humans.


2 posted on 08/01/2011 2:27:40 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: neverdem

Also, Wikipedia has this to say about it:

“Both methanol and ethanol burn at lower temperatures than gasoline, and both are less volatile, making engine starting in cold weather more difficult. Using methanol as a fuel in spark ignition engines can offer an increased thermal efficiency and increased power output (as compared to gasoline) due to its high octane rating (114[8]) and high heat of vaporization. However, its low energy content of 19.7 MJ/kg and stoichiometric air fuel ratio of 6.42:1 mean that fuel consumption (on volume or mass basis) will be higher than hydrocarbon fuels. The extra water produced also makes the charge rather wet (similar to hydrogen/oxygen combustion engines) and combined with the formation of acidic products during combustion, the wearing of valves, valve seats and cylinder might be higher than with hydrocarbon burning. Certain additives may be added to the fuel in order to neutralize these acids.

Methanol, just like ethanol, contains soluble and insoluble contaminants.[9] These soluble contaminants, halide ions such as chloride ions, have a large effect on the corrosivity of alcohol fuels. Halide ions increase corrosion in two ways; they chemically attack passivating oxide films on several metals causing pitting corrosion, and they increase the conductivity of the fuel. Increased electrical conductivity promotes electric, galvanic, and ordinary corrosion in the fuel system. Soluble contaminants, such as aluminum hydroxide, itself a product of corrosion by halide ions, clog the fuel system over time.

Methanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb water vapor directly from the atmosphere.[5] Because absorbed water dilutes the fuel value of the methanol (although, it suppresses engine knock), and may cause phase separation of methanol-gasoline blends, containers of methanol fuels must be kept tightly sealed.”

“Methanol occurs naturally in the human body and in some fruits, however it is poisonous in sufficient concentration. Ingestion of 10 ml can cause blindness and 60-100 ml can be fatal if the condition is untreated.[6]. Like many volatile chemicals, methanol does not have to be swallowed to be dangerous since the liquid can be absorbed through the skin, and the vapors through the lungs. “

Don’t have a fuel spill.


3 posted on 08/01/2011 2:30:21 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: neverdem
What a crock, methanol, corn liquor, all the same damn crap with the same results. You can use what ever you want, just stop sucking on the tax payers with subsidy's.
4 posted on 08/01/2011 2:30:21 PM PDT by org.whodat (What does the Republican party stand for////??? absolutely nothing.)
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To: neverdem

Or we could just use gasoline since we have more oil than Saudi Arabia.


5 posted on 08/01/2011 2:31:20 PM PDT by itsahoot (--I will vote for Sarah Palin, even if I have to write her in. --He that hath an ear, let him hear.)
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To: neverdem
Those who are the actual oligarchical rulers over America are not quite ready to let us be ‘energy independent’. Once they corner the methanol production process, then we will be allowed to seek ‘independence’ from foreign oil.
6 posted on 08/01/2011 2:32:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: neverdem

“....methanol can readily be made from any carbon-containing material.”

.
Yes it can — by injecting more BTUs/gallon into the manufacturing process, than a gallon of the product contains.

Ever heard of beautiful cheap energy in the ground? Drill baby drill and put any access in the world’s oil market.

Hell, the world will worship while facing Houston.


7 posted on 08/01/2011 2:32:21 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: neverdem
We have 3 times or more the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia locked up in the Green River Formation. 1.1 to 1.3 TRILLION barrels of oil that the environazi’s won't let us get at!

We can DIG our way out of this!

8 posted on 08/01/2011 2:32:40 PM PDT by WellyP (REAL)
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To: neverdem

Really sounds great. Can someone forward this to our congress critters for quick consideration.


9 posted on 08/01/2011 2:33:25 PM PDT by Yulee (Village of Albion)
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To: neverdem

Looks like we’ll be seeing yellow raps fields all over the country soon, with huge wind turbines too if this ever comes to light. Europe has them, E 10 gas is made of rap oils, so I’ve been told.


10 posted on 08/01/2011 2:36:03 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Liberals fight with smear, Conservatives fight with truth. Palin & West team are 2012's dream)
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To: neverdem

Here in East Tennessee, we have in operation two plants that produce methane from coal. The gassification plants have been in more or less continuous operation since the early 80’s. The plants are the basis for thousands of jobs and have made the owner the world low cost producer of many chemical products.

A third operational plant was recently announced to gassify coal in a nearby city.

There is also a fourth, a DOE joint venture pilot that has been out of operation for perhaps 15 years.


19 posted on 08/01/2011 2:57:27 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Flash mobs are trickle down leftwing REDISTRIBUTION))
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To: neverdem

While sounding like an advertisement written for a “methanol” political lobby outfit, again we have someone saying, in their own way, “if only government would step in and mandate (flex-fuel) what organic markets, economics and technology have not” THEN we will have a magic bullet solution to a “problem”.

How about we let $100 oil start to instigate solutions in the markets; solutions brought to market by those who think they have the technological means and the risk capital to compete with $100 oil.

I think that would be better than any more mandates from government. Please note that neither Japan or Europe have “cafe” standards.


20 posted on 08/01/2011 2:58:06 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: neverdem

Methanal is toxic, if you drink it, you will die or go blind. However, the antidote to Methanol poisioning, is drinking Ethanol.


24 posted on 08/01/2011 3:14:33 PM PDT by Husker24
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To: neverdem
Do these guys get paid by the word? I can't read those long winded articles. Compress natural gas to 3500PSI into a tank as heavy as a bank vault and waste half of the energy compressing it! Give me old fashioned leaded gas. It worked great and did not boil in hot weather.
25 posted on 08/01/2011 3:17:24 PM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: neverdem

Or we could build coal gasification plants that would convert our coal to diesel/gasoline/other light oils.

And since we have some of the world’s largest deposits of coal... coupled with the fact that coal gasification is a proven technology (Germany in WWII, South Africa in the 80’s), there won’t be any need to ‘develop’ it before implementation.

Plus, all the output is diesel, gasoline, oil... so it feeds into the already existing infrastructure, as opposed to needing to build an all new one.


26 posted on 08/01/2011 3:18:28 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: neverdem
"The United States currently produces 8 percent of the world’s liquid fuel but uses 25 percent,.."

I call Urban Legend!

for forty years the anti-American left has complained that Americans use 25% of the world's petroleum production. Imagine that. For 40 years, it hasn't moved to 24% or 26%, no, they tell us it always remains precisely constant, year after year after year. China now makes more cars than the US but it hasn't affected the number by a single barrel.

Bunk.

27 posted on 08/01/2011 3:21:42 PM PDT by cookcounty (Nullius in Verba. "Take no man's word for it.")
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To: neverdem

Methanol is another pipe dream that won’t work in the end. The best bet is Fischer-Tropsch synfuel from coal and natural gas. Can do it right now, and the fuel is clean, loaded with energy, and doesn’t eat up the fuel systems of today’s vehicles. BTW, according to the US geological survey, we have 462 billion tons of recoverable coal. Our gas reserves number in the trillions of cubic feet. Add in our oil shale and that of our neighbors to the north, and no ships bearing foreign oil or fuels need dock at any US port for the next few hundred years.

For the green-nuts among us, if they would put the climate change hoax behind them, there is a bit of good news. People have scoffed at algae oil or algenol, but I believe it is viable of you can pump enough sunlight and CO2 into it. Fischer-Tropsch produces lots of CO2, which could be utilized in algae beds or other growing operations. But that will require certain brainwashed individuals to quit thinking of CO2 as a pollutant. In any case, algae is more sensible than corn-based ethanol, which was been shown to be a net energy drag.

What we need is an act of congress that turns our federally owned fossil fuel reserves over to social security lien holders (those who have contributed). Any taxes or fees collected on fuels or raw materials extracted or mined from federally owned lands would be the property of individual account owners. Think of it as the same system that Alaska has, but the money from the sale of resources goes into privatized social security accounts.

A big added bonus of this domestic energy plan is thousands of new high-paying mining jobs.


29 posted on 08/01/2011 3:25:32 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head (argh)
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To: neverdem
He had me till he mentioned that there's legislation to "help" this along. By all means, if methanol is a promising fuel, let it develop.

But leave the blasted government out of it.

30 posted on 08/01/2011 3:28:03 PM PDT by BfloGuy (There is no remedy for the inefficiency of public management. -- L. Von Mises)
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To: neverdem

Wouldn’t methane make more sense than methanol?


32 posted on 08/01/2011 3:32:45 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution!)
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To: neverdem
Furthermore, at a time when Congress is seeking to keep taxes light in order to boost job creation

I stopped right there.

34 posted on 08/01/2011 3:59:22 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?)
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To: neverdem

This country could do all sorts of great things again were it not for the communist politicians trying to destroy it. Remove the Liberals from power and this country can rebound.


35 posted on 08/01/2011 4:01:39 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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