Great police response to 'open carry' activist

policeone.com ^ | July 25, 2011 | Doug Wyllie

[brent13a]

In California, where I live and work, there has been an increasing movement among a segment of legally-armed citizens to carry unloaded sidearms in plain view. This trend is happening elsewhere, but there seems to just be more “activity” around the movement here in the Golden State perhaps because it seems so much more difficult to get a CCW here than in most other states.

In my humble estimation, the video of Officer Matthew Lyons of the Oceanside (Calif.) PD could be a training video for any agency that has to deal with “open carry citizens.” In fact, the video of video below in which Officer Lyons encounters one of those individuals stands in stark contrast to another we posted to PoliceOne last week.

There has been quite a lot of traffic to the video of Canton (Ohio) Patrolman Harless not just here on PoliceOne, but all over the Internet — and his less-than-stellar response to a legally-armed citizen in his sector. I’m told that Harless has been — or soon will be — relieved of his badge. Well, regardless of the outcome of that particular case, there are myriad examples out there of officers encountering an open-carry citizen, and I point to this one with Officer Lyons as a compelling example of “doing it the right way.”

Officer Lyons has been hailed by a handful of bloggers, including one for CBS News which bears repeating here:

“Officer Matt Lyons with the Oceanside Police Department definitely deserves a shout out for this almost 3-minute encounter. Officer Lyons, we salute you, not only for your incredible professionalism, sense of humor, and great on camera demeanor, but also your dedicated 22 years of service in the United States Marine Corps.”

[Cboldt]

-- The major problem being that if you had to use the gun, and once you loaded it, you would be breaking the law (a major felony). Then after you broke that law and if you used the gun there isn't a court in Illinois that would find for your defense(you would be charged with homicide). ... Do I agree with how the law works? NO. --

I recommend you learn how the law of self-defense really works.

-- Do I have to enforce it? YES. --

Actually, you, and the courts, and the prosecutor, all of youhave this widget called "discretion." I'm sure you use it.

-- while open-carrying proves a certain point, for personal safety and well-being it's really really stupid. --

Do you open carry?

[KEVLAR]

“How does the police officer know if the gun is truly unloaded, as required by law?”

Should the police check every person on the street who is carrying a beverage container, to ensure they are not consuming alcohol in public, as required by law?

Does a presumption of innocence only apply once brought into a court of law?

[brent13a]

when the officer confiscated the weapon,
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No he didn't, he asked the activist for it, the activist voluntarily turned it over to him, the officer performed a safety inspection to insure there was no shell in the chamber then returned it to the citizen.

Now, now....we can't be pointing out little things that would make the pig-copper look less evil.

[Cboldt]

-- If we don't follow through with an investigation then the it becomes our liability. --

There is no liability for failing to respond to a call. NONE. This has been held so many times. The government has no duty to respond to any individual call. Unless the conduct of the government is beyond the pale, the government actors posess immunity from all suit.

[brent13a]

Nope. But once someone brings themselves to the attention of the police then it becomes something that might have to be investigated.

If 10 people walk by me with drink containers I could care less but if the 11th person to walk by me is drinking out of what looks like a beer bottle then I'm going to investigate whats in the beer bottle.

or

If ten people walk by me with drink containers I could care less but if one of those 10 people tell me that there is a person following them that looks like they are drinking a beer out of a beer bottle then I'll probably investigate.

[brent13a]

There is no liability for failing to respond to a call. NONE. This has been held so many times. The government has no duty to respond to any individual call. Unless the conduct of the government is beyond the pale, the government actors posess immunity from all suit.

That sounds really nice. Could you please inform my Chief of this? I mean, there are no police officers or police departments that ever get sued because they have no liability? Wow.

[brent13a]

Should the police check every person on the street who is carrying a beverage container, to ensure they are not consuming alcohol in public, as required by law?

Alos, comparing a city ordinance violation to a Felony State Law isn't really doing the comparison justice.

[KEVLAR]

So in this case, you would allow 10 people to walk by carrying a firearm openly, and only inspect the weapon(s) if you had reason to believe it was loaded illegally?

[usconservative]

It’s called knowing the law and acting decently towards your fellow citizens. The Oceanside officer obviously left his ego at home and didn’t get angry when “Jeremy” wouldn’t give his name.

The officer came off like a complete professional and a class-act. "Jeremy" on the other hand came off like a jerk with a point to prove.

There's a right way to prove a point, and a wrong way to prove a point. "Jeremy" could've come off alot better by simply cooperating with the officer and showing how it's done on both sides.

Just my humble opinion...

[KEVLAR]

I left Illinois last December.

There is no way I would ever consider carrying a firearm on my person in that state under any conditions.

Even carrying a handgun, unloaded, and in a locked case in your trunk is risky there.

[Cboldt]

-- Could you please inform my Chief of this? I mean, there are no police officers or police departments that ever get sued because they have no liability? --

Umm, "liability" attaches when the suit is lost, not when it is filed.

Give me ONE example of a case where a police department lost a case for failure to respond.

[brent13a]

there has been an increasing movement among a segment of legally-armed citizens to carry unloaded sidearms in plain view.
------------------
This makes no sense whatsoever.

Agreed. I can see the act of doing so from the 2nd Amendment Activist point of view. I'm a police officer in the last state in the Union that doesn't have some sort of logical Open Carry or CCW law whatsoever. Even most police officers I know call Illinois "The Red State" as in 'red'='commie'.

However, I think that this would be an act best done in a setting conducive to all peoples involved. Like at a 2nd Amendment Rally where everyone knows what is going on and whats up. Randomly doing this down a street, looking for a confrontation with ANY police officer has a high probability that the act isn't going to end up being conducive for that person or their movement.

And in the end, you might be able to carry it 'open' but you still can't use it.

[Teacher317]

there has been an increasing movement among a segment of legally-armed citizens to carry unloaded sidearms in plain view.
This makes no sense whatsoever.

It's called incrementalism. It's how the Left has been destroying our fundamental freedoms for over a century. It's a good first step.

[Lurker]

So you are knowingly and willingly enforcing a law you believe is un-Constitutional? Don’t think much of your oath, do you.

[EBH]

I'm sure he's disappointed with the polite treatment he received from the LEO.

If that would be the case, wouldn't this video have never made the internet?

[papertyger]

Do I agree with how the law works? NO. Do I have to enforce it? YES

Thank you for so concisely articulating my primary grievence with practitioners of the law industry. So long as the citizen is ignorant of what is and is not within the officer's discretion, they stay happy...but as soon as a citizen challenges that discretion, rightly or wrongly, the officer invariably escalates it into a dick beating contest.

I believe this kind of compartmentalizing mentality fosters the exact kind of tunnel vision demomstrated by two Polish police officers who cried like babies when they were held to account for murdering Father Jerzy Popieluszk just before the fall of the Jaruzelski regime.

[brent13a]

I don't know you're asking me to compare the situation between someone possibly violating a city ordinance and someone possibly violating a Felony State Statute. You're asking me to compare a situation where someone may fall down in the street gutter drunk and one where if the wrong person open-carries something bad could happen.

What do you think the answer should be? I mean does 97% of the population in IL walked around open-carrying their handguns with it being an everyday common occurrence? Or does Illinois still have overly stringent unconstitutional gun carry laws in which 99.99% of the population doesn't walk around open-carrying? Can you logically deduce this out?

[brent13a]

So in this case, you would allow 10 people to walk by carrying a firearm openly, and only inspect the weapon(s) if you had reason to believe it was loaded illegally?

I don't know because you're asking me to compare the situation between someone possibly violating a city ordinance and someone possibly violating a Felony State Statute. You're asking me to compare a situation where someone may fall down in the street gutter drunk and one where if the wrong person open-carries something bad could happen.

What do you think the answer should be? I mean does 97% of the population in IL walked around open-carrying their handguns with it being an everyday common occurrence? Or does Illinois still have overly stringent unconstitutional gun carry laws in which 99.99% of the population doesn't walk around open-carrying? Can you logically deduce this out?

[Mr.Unique]

Please spare me. Where? 1940's Pleasantville?

I need to forward some of my neighborhood watch emails. Last week, the cops were call because...well, let me quote...

A suspicious vehicle was just observed on Ray Drive - silver van with three black males wearing taboogans (no tag). Neighbor has called the police and they are patrolling now. Just thought I would pass on.

[brent13a]

So you are knowingly and willingly enforcing a law you believe is un-Constitutional? Don’t think much of your oath, do you.

Are you going to pay my salary for the rest of my life for becoming a martyr? When my job entails becoming an exact replica of the Nazi SS i.e. when my job becomes one that forces me to kill people on a whim, etc, then I'll become a martyr. Until then I'll keep enforcing THE SYSTEM whether I agree with it 100% or not.

It's up to the "patriotic citizen" to use their power of the vote to change that system.