The Casey Anthony Verdict is Not an Endorsement of Our Criminal Justice System

redstate.com ^ | 7/5/11 | Rob Taylor

[Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears]

When the Casey Anthony verdict was announced I expected celebration from her defense team. I was more taken aback by the celebratory tone taken by pundits like Geraldo Rivera and Judge Andrew Napolitano. Their position is the same one that many liberals, anti-death penalty activists and libertarians are promoting now: this proves the system works.

But it doesn’t.

The American justice system is the greatest legal system in the world but like any other it is fallible. In the interest of liberty we err on the side of caution in criminal cases, but that means that in many cases we do not get justice. Talking heads on Fox were making the point that this was justice, that the verdict is a victory for the Constitution. This is wrong. Criminals getting off is a byproduct of a our love of liberty but it certainly isn’t an endorsement of our system.

Casey Anthony may or may not have killed her child but we know she committed several crimes afterward. She didn’t report her daughter missing for weeks. When police were finally involved she attempted to frame an innocent woman for murder. While her daughter was supposedly missing she was out partying. If not reporting your daughter missing for a month isn’t child abuse – or at least child neglect – nothing is.

(snip)

Little Caylee Anthony was abused, possibly raped according to her own mother who claimed George Anthony was a child molester. She disappeared and her mother did nothing. She died a horrible death and her family hired lawyers. Her body was desecrated, thrown into a ditch like so much garbage and her mother will likely walk free at sentencing. How is this an endorsement of American justice?

[central_va]

When the coroner cannot identify the type of the homicide as in this case, there is no case.

Did you follow the Scott Peterson case? Nobody can say for sure how Laci died. Also, Charles Manson was convicted without ANY evidence he has actually killed anyone.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Nice hyperbole and even better straw-man argument!

[central_va]

The prosecutors should have charged her with crimes that they could prove.

Do you know what the charges were?

[Las Vegas Ron]

You don’t think anyone’s ever been convicted of murder in Florida without a body? Well, then, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

I don't know, I don't live there and I didn't say one way or another. I was just pointing out that the comparisons I was commenting on were from different states.

And what is it about this particular case that demands there be a cause of death when in other cases convictions have been secured without it?

Beats me, I wasn't on the jury. I my self, depending on the circumstances, would find it very difficult to convict without a cause or a body. That's just me.

Why is it that this case garners incessant media attention when so many others don't even merit attention?

[Las Vegas Ron]

Do you know what the charges were?

Go dig in someone else's yard.

[Bluebird Singing]

“And what is it about this particular case that demands there be a cause of death when in other cases convictions have been secured without it? What makes Casey so super-duper-secret-ultra-sepcial?”

Maybe it’s because deep down inside, some can’t get past thinking she’s a sizzling shot-girl/Hot Body Contestant, and obviously from photos, a great(looking) mom.

[New Jersey Realist]

Stir up the village people by providing them with torches and pitchforks!

[freejohn]

I read the article and the entire article was based upon the premise that Caylee Anthony was murdered.

I agree .. Caylee wrapped duct tape around her mouth and nose .. climbed into a knotted bag and rode around in the trunk of her mothers car until the 'rotting stink' of her flesh got so bad that she had to throw herself into the swamp like so much garbage! Yep .. I see where you might have a point!

[DoughtyOne]

It's my take that the writer displayed intances of good, incomplete, or in some instances down-right incorrect conclusions.

Rather than just post a few points of disagreement, I am compelled to address all the issues raised by this person, then address them directly.

I recognize up front that some people will think I'm off base here.  I appreciate the alternative opinions on that point.  I'm by no means stating mine are the only true and correct takes on this.  I still want to explain my thoughts on this person's persentation.

Here goes:

When the Casey Anthony verdict was announced I expected celebration from her defense team.  I expected that too.  What I didn't expect was the defense attorny's attempt to confont, insult, and belittle people who had determined Casey was guilty.  I truly feared for his safety after his comments.  I was more taken aback by the celebratory tone taken by pundits like Geraldo Rivera and Judge Andrew Napolitano.  Rivera?  No.  Napolitano?  Yes.   This wasn't out of character for Rivera.  It was out of character for Napolitano.  As a judge, Napolitano is going to back the system.  That was to be expected.  I don't agree with it, but I do understand where he was coming from to a degree.  I value an open honest discussion, and if Napolitano was defending this verdict, we weren't getting it.  Their position is the same one that many liberals, anti-death penalty activists and libertarians are promoting now: this proves the system works.  I think there's some truth to this perception.  I wish there weren't.

But it doesn’t.  No, it does not prove the system works.  It proved the system can be gamed.  It proved that jurors can become violators of the law themselves.  It proved that people can focus on the defendant so much so that the victim's rights are completely forgotten and dismissed.  Caylee's loss of life was totally dismissed by these jurors.  The only person that could have been responsible, was exhonerated for that involvement.  She was exhonerated for her actions.  She was exhonerated for trying to pin the crime on anyone but herself.  She was exhonerated for her celebration of "the good life".

The American justice system is the greatest legal system in the world but like any other it is fallible. I agree.  Seven hundred death row inmates in California's death row, without any active effort to see those executions carried out, demonstrates a complicity by all parties in the defeat of justice.  In the interest of liberty we err on the side of caution in criminal cases, but that means that in many cases we do not get justice. No we don't.  The only question are, what percentage of the overall cases, do defendants get off when they shouldn't, and what percentage to defendants actually get more time than they deserve, due to the case being blown up out proportion?  That does happen too.  Talking heads on Fox were making the point that this was justice, that the verdict is a victory for the Constitution. This is wrong. Criminals getting off is a byproduct of a our love of liberty but it certainly isn’t an endorsement of our system.  While I share the consternation here, seeing a guilty person get off does confirm that the government is not destined to ride roughshod over the rights of defendants.  While that is VERY troubling, it is at the same time something that proves beyond a shaddow of a doubt that our government or legal system is different than others, in that it does not in every case ride roughshod of the rights of defendents, even if it is convinced of their guilt.  Must we strive to make sure this hardly every happens?  Should we strive to make sure this hardly ever happens?  Absolutely.  It is a travesty that Casey got off here.  Her daughter cries out from the grave for justice.  Was justice served here?  No.

Casey Anthony may or may not have killed her child but we know she committed several crimes afterward. I disagree with the initial perception here.  There is no quesiton at all that Casey was involved in the premeditated death of her daughter.  (IMO)  There's no other possible conslusion, given the facts.  I do agree with the idea she committed more crimes subsequent to the murder.  She didn’t report her daughter missing for weeks. When police were finally involved she attempted to frame an innocent woman for murder. While her daughter was supposedly missing she was out partying. If not reporting your daughter missing for a month isn’t child abuse – or at least child neglect – nothing is.  I agree with these comments.  It's also my understanding that she tried to implicate her own father and ex-husband as well.  In that she failed.  The tactic of trying to pass off a murder change on the babysitter, the father, the ex-husband, does contribute to the full picture of how depraved and evil this woman was.  None the less, this jury was oblivious.

But a quirk in the law makes it so that that the same child abuse that can get your children taken away by CPS can’t put you in jail when that child turns up put in a garbage bag and thrown into a swamp. The best legal system in the world cannot bring justice to Caylee Anthony’s killer. This is the price we pay for liberty but it is hardly an endorsement of our system.  This is a popular conclusion right now.  I don't see it quite this way.  I believe we saw real tangible jury misconduct in this case.  While that is an indication of a problem with our justice system, it's not quite the damnation of it that folks may see it to be.  It is proof of yet another crime involving multiple players.  LINK to further commentary on my part, up thread.

Little Caylee Anthony was abused, possibly raped according to her own mother who claimed George Anthony was a child molester.  Can this honestly be addressed as reality?  No.  The mother lied on the record regarding Caylee's hereabouts.  She lied to the police.  She lied by implicating a woman with a very tenous connection to the family.  She lied about the father.  Can we honestly take her word regarding her own dad?  No.  George Anthony is nothing more than another victim of Casey by my perception.  Until something tangible comes along, I'm not going to adopt the comments of a known liar, killer, into my belief system.  She disappeared and her mother did nothing.  After killing her applying duct tape as part of the process, storing the body in the trunk of her car, then dumping it in a swamp, I agree.   She died a horrible death and her family hired lawyers.  Well, mom actually celebrated.  The hiring of lawyers came later.  Her body was desecrated, thrown into a ditch like so much garbage and her mother will likely walk free at sentencing. How is this an endorsement of American justice?  It is not.  It is instead the realization that some jurries go rogue, and become criminally complicit after the fact.  IMO, these jurrors did not follow their instructions.  They talked about the case early on amongst themselves.  They ignored the overall presentation of evidence and the unmistakable implications.  They came up with justifications for their conclusions that dismissed direct contradictory evidence.  I honestly believe this reaches the level that they should be brought up on charges, and a misstrial declared.

That our legal system lets the guilty walk free is sad but arguably necessary for the maintenance of liberty. I don't agree with that.  There will be times when it happens, but that isn't necessary for our system to maintain the maintenance of liberty.  I don't buy into that.  Others may.  I did say that it clearly indicates the government doesn't always game the system to the detrament of defendants it thinks are guilty, but none the less I don't see this as a necessary outcome at all.  If this never happened, it would not be proof that our justice system was unfair.  That our pundits can find cause for celebrating the release of a woman who in the best case scenario simply didn’t care that her daughter was molested then later kidnapped is disgusting.  What tangible proof do we have of Casey or Caylee being molested by George?  Are we really going to trash this grandfather's reputation for all time based on Casey's statement?  Casey's is deemed innocent, but George, now there's a guy that is evil?  Really?  I'm not jumping on that band wagon.  This is a tragedy, not a victory for freedom and America.  It is a tragedy.  It is not proof of the system being severely flawed.  It is proof that a jury can seriously screw up to the point of comitting criminal acts, and essentially becoming accessories after the fact.  I'm not making the case this accessory charge meets legal requirements, but for the case of our discussion, I think it is worthy of mentioning.  It's my take, this is exactly what these jurors opened themselves up.  I sincerely wish the judge would address it.

Casey Anthony got off because she worked the system. In a fair and impartial court system this happens. It’s too bad. But the worst part of this is the idea that we can take the denial of justice for a toddler who was brutally murdered and use it to pat ourselves on the back about what a great society we are.  I agree that we shouldn't pat ourselves on the back here.  Far from it.  I do want to state that there was no evidence whatsoever of a "fair and impartial court system" here.  The jury is a part of that court system, and it's my take there was very little fairnees or impartiality demonstrated here.  Did this jury give the evidence a fair evaluation on behalf of Caylee?  I am not convinced of that at all.  Was this jury impartial, judging the evidence in a fair, reasoned manner?  I am not convinced of that at all.  Our system is not condemned by this.  One jury gone rogue is.  Look, it's my take that this jury went off the reservation.  Other will see it differently.

Are we a great society because a young, damaged single mother who claimed her own father molested her left her daughter with him to go drinking?  "...young, damaged single mother..."?????  We are talking about the same indifferent celebratory (IMO sociopathic) liar here right?  Are we a great society because we produce people who would rather go to wet t-shirt contests than look for their missing children?  Does our society produce such people?  No.  If it did, we'd have tens of millions of mothers on trial for having killed their children and celebrated afterwards.  We have a mentally disturbed person here.  (once again IMO)  Society is not to blame here.  If you'll give it some thought, you'll realize that's the Leftist's fall back position.  We don't buy into that nonsense.  Are we a great society because our citizens try to frame innocent people for crimes they didn’t commit? No.  Or are we a great society because people like that can find a way to get off?  No.  We are a great society because we don't do any of these things, let alone on purpose.

The Casey Anthony verdict doesn’t endorse our criminal justice system; it exposes our crumbling society. Not really.  If it indicated that, our justice system would have been disolved by now.  It exposes a problem with mentally ill people being able to fool juries.  It does not expose a problem with our system at large.  Many fine juries do their duty across this nation each and every day.  We must not lose sight of this because one big cluster ---- exploded in our faces.  The courts can’t always dispense justice, it is up to society to protect our children.  Agreed to on principle.  I still don't buy into the "It takes a village" mentality.  It takes good parents.  We need to bring back public shaming, we need to bring back the idea of moral responsibility separate from legal responsibility. Agreed.  Some people lament that Casey Anthony will not be able to hold a job or go out with her friends or meet a decent man because of the public scrutiny of the trial. Well them's the breaks.  Caylee Anthony will never be able to do those things either.  Exactly.

I do believe that it the very rare instance when we should criticize the process as highly as I am here.  None the less, I do think there was misconduct here.  I do believe the evidence was more than ample enough to justify a guilty verdict on the worst of the charges brought.  Premedication was presented.  A motive was presented.

The Anthony family deserves society’s scorn, not our philosophical justifications of why they aren’t in prison.  One person deserves our scorn.  That one person was Casey Anthony.  No reliable evidence was presented that caused anyone else in that family to be scorned.  Parents did what they thought was their parental duty.  Even after the father was betrayed, the mother still lied (IMO) on Casey's behalf.  You only do that if you have a misguided vision of what your duty to your daughter is.  I don't agree with that, but I can understand it.  I would support the charge of perjury.  At the saem time, this was not enough to fool the jury.  This jury was fooled far before and way more broadly than that.  Caylee Anthony paid the ultimate price for being born into a family of dysfunctional criminals who by their own admission lied to police again and again to cover up a crime they say they played no part in. Our justice system failed to hold them legally responsible, now it remains to be seen if our moral fiber is as easily deceived as our courts.  While we're in the process of condemning Casey's parents, lets remember that George testified to smelling the odor of a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.   If he was trying to get his daughter off, would that be something he would do?

I'm not sure what moral fiber we are supposed to be in danger of losing here.  Most of us see Casey as the mental criple psycopathic killer she seems to be.  Don't confuse this with the idea she deserves a mental incompetance defense.  I don't buy into that at all.

Some of us are holding major players in this jury trial to account.  That seems to be about all we can do.

Right now we're angry about this, and I think some people are overplaying their hand.  Perhaps people will think I was doing that here.  I sincerely hope not.  Once again, here is the logic trail I used to come to the conclusions I did.  LINK to another post of mine on this thread.  It may help.

[mjp]

this proves the system works.

then it is a lousy system

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you WarDaddy. I appreciate the comments.

I want to make it clear that I did not follow this case closely. I did pick up on things presented in the media. It is possible that some of what I posted could be somewhat misguided.

For that reason, I would urge folks to read it, agree or disagree in light of what they know to be true.

I posted that as a spring-board for others to branch out from.

It’s not my intent to mislead anyone and I do want a full airing of the facts, pro or con.

Take care.

[Gator113]

First, unlike you, I found the article to be very good.

Then, I found that I agreed with almost everything you put into your book. ;>)

Finally, I have but one question. Just how many doggone words per minute can you type??? LOL From the color changes alone, my fingers would be tied in knots.

Keep posting, but remember to soak those fingers from time to time. ;>)

[Guenevere]

Excellent post, Doughty One....well thought out!

[PieterCasparzen]

People seem to think that reasonable doubt works like this on this case: a) the accused is forced to come up with a defense in court b) if the jurors have reasonable doubt that the defense is sufficient, they have to convict. Of course, this is nonsense, since reasonble doubt applies to consideration of the prosecution’s case - does the juror have reasonable doubt that what the prosecution says happened actually happened - if so, they have to acquit.

Here’s a basic idea that enters into deliberations: opportunity. If you are charged with committing a crime, one important consideration is did you have the opportunity to commit the crime. Casey certainly had opportunity. Another huge factor is was there an opportunity for anyone else to commit the crime. If there was a possibility that someone else could have commited the crime, the prosecution needs to prepare a case that lowers the probability of that in the minds of the jury.

In this case, for example, the duct tape on the skeleton was in an area that was accessible to the public, sat there for months, and the area was wooded, providing for concealed ingress and egress. This means that anyone could have come and gone from this area during the time in question. There was no evidence provided definitively proving that the duct tape was applied prior to death, though this is what the prosecution was claiming, that the murder weapons were a combination of homemade chloroform that Casey manufactured herself, with no help, and duct tape applied after the victim was unconscious. After sitting in a swampy area for what is agreed to by both sides as months, the flesh is alleged to have decomposed and left the duct tape sticking to the skull.

The prosecution’s assertion that Casey had opportunity was not really refuted by the defense, since Casey came up with no compelling evidence giving a thorough accounting for her whereabouts during the weeks in question. But that seemingly weak defense was a hollow victory for the prosecution, because the prosecution did not have a specific place and time that the murder occured in their accusation. So the prosecution never got to the point where they confronted Casey with the big question of where she was on the night of x, at a certain time. They were saying we know this murder happened sometime during that week, probably somewhere in the State of Florida. Casey, why don’t you give the court a rundown of where you were during that week and if you slip up perhaps you’ll inadvertently incriminate yourself.

Casey’s behavior was used to certainly offer a motive for her to commit murder. But certainly as the jury went through each damning piece of evidence, i.e., the computer, the car, the scene where the body was recovered, etc., they had no very compelling evidence that they could rely on to rule out the possibility that a family member, a friend, or some other person not even involved in the case also had opportunity to perform the acts Casey was accused of doing. While one certainly would have to speculate as to the motive of another person, there certainly are plausible scenarios for them to have motive, and one realizes that the motive may be unknown based on the evidence. And, from the jury’s perspective, Casey’s motive is actually just about as speculative, that she wanted Caylee “out of her way” in her life so she could party. This is contradicted by the fact that the grandparents and Casey, per evidence presented, were already caring for Caylee with no assertions of any abuse of Caylee on the part of Casey or her parents. While Casey did have a partying lifestyle, there are many cases of single mothers living with their parents in this country, where the parents wish their daughter would be a better mother and not party so much. It’s actually rather a common phenomenon. Denying that is to deny that teenage pregnancy is common, as is teenage partying. I can think of a few situations off the top of my head where young girls have babies, live with their parents, and their parents feel that they need to get their life together, spend more time at home and stop partying.

Any time a crime scene is open to the public for months prior to being sealed and analyzed by LE, it always casts doubt as to whether someone besides the accused left evidence there or manipulated it, or the accused did. In every case where a body is found in a public place, the challenge is overcoming the possibility that someone other than the accused is guilty.

[samtheman]

Florida needs Dexter.

[DoughtyOne]

At first my reaction was to reference the commentary as being very problematic. In truth the guy got some things right, and the troubling nature of this case was bound to cause people to speak out, and sometimes without having thought out the ramifications of their comments fully.

I decided to mellow out the opening and give the guy credit where he got it right. Even when he got it wrong, his troubled demeanor made it clear his intent was reasoned. He was as upset here as I was.

As for my typing fast, I use an HTML editor found in Netscape 7.2. I copy the text from the document I’m addressing, convert it to gray and start making my comments in contrasting colors.

This cuts down on the typing, the difficulty of changing text colors, and with formatting.

I will go soak my fingers now. I’m not making any promises about my head.

Glad you found some value to the reading, and took the time to comment on it. I appreciate it.

Take care.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[jonrick46]

""Casey Anthony may or may not have killed her child but we know she committed several crimes afterward."

This statement was thrown in as an afterthought. It seems to be out of context from the rest of the article. The entire article makes one assumption after another. All the charges in this article have never been proven; at least in the court room of Orange County Superior Court Chief Judge Belvin Perry Jr.

The failure to notify officials after a child's death has never been a crime in Florida. That is why State Rep. Bill Hager, R-Boca Raton, drafted "Caylee's Law" which would make it a felony in the state of Florida for a legal guardian to fail to report a missing child in a timely manner. So what "several crimes" does the author have proof of being committed?

The stench in the car? The smell was first noticed by the manager of the towing yard where the car was being kept. "In my opinion and experience, the smell of decomposition is unique in comparison to rotten food or rotting garbage," Simon Birch said. So, the idea of the dead body of Caylee being held in the trunk of the car until it began to stink was disputed by Birch who spent two years in waste management.

Finally, the article borders on slander. If I were the Anthony family, I would go after the author for slander with these statements: "Are we a great society because a young, damaged single mother who claimed her own father molested her left her daughter with him to go drinking?" And, "Casey Anthony got off because she worked the system." All such statements ignore the necesity of supporting your conclusions with facts. There was no proof of molestation. Casey Anthony did not work the system. She benefited from the same system that all citizens enjoy because of the Constitution.

The article stinks about as bad as a bag of garbage left in a hot car trunk in Florida for a month.

[dsc]

“Let me guess. You didn’t even read the article.”

Okay, you guessed. Wrongly.

I read that article, other articles, and listened to some talk radio, including Mark Levin.

It’s a lynch mob mentality on FR today.

[dsc]

“By this new standard”

I rather imagine that Mark Levin and other lawyers would be surprised to discover that proving guilt is a new standard.