Posted on 06/23/2011 8:58:10 PM PDT by smokingfrog
They don’t put dead men on trail so I am free to draw my own conclusion.
That is how it works.
BTW - why are you not saying this to the ones claiming the cops planted the stolen gun there?
>> The knocked and waited 8 seconds or so before breaking in. <<
Yes, I did. And I saw the way the way that they waited some 35 seconds... plenty of time for him to wake up, grab his gun, and lie in wait... which he did.
>> His wife had seen armed men outside the house and told her husband, <<
The wife’s story is an hilariously bad lie. They had sirens blazing in the driveway.
>> there is serious doubt he owned the rifle, his wife claimed at the time that the swat team threw it down next to him <<
Until she realized that the footage gathered by the robot precluded this possibility, then she shut up about it.
>> BTW, he was not involved in a stolen crime ring, that was BS made up to justify the shooting. <<
And you know this how? He was not convicted; he’s dead because he met a SWAT team by crouching in the dark with a rifle. But a judge found probably cause. And the fact that he met a SWAT team by crouching in the dark with a rifle, that he owned a stolen gun, and certain legal items which nonetheless fit the crimes hw had been accused of seem to confirm this.
And why would a man who could own several legal guns own a stolen gun? Because it couldn’t be traced to him if he murdered someone with it.
Could the stolen gun have been a plant? Could this all be some great cover-up? Yes. From what we know now, it’s possible. But if it’s a lie, that robot’s footage will expose it all, because as we all know, the robot went in an hour before anyone else did. And every lawyer west of the Mississippi will know that.
But, wait... the wife already quit pressing the “they planted the gun lie” already. I guess the lawyers already told her that.
Probably because I, like some other FReepers don't trust Sheriff Dupnik.
>> If the warraent were for someone involved with weapons - WTF do you think they should have anticipated? Did they think he was going to have jelly doughnuts? <<
I think they should have anticipated the significant possibility of finding exactly what they found. I take it you feel they should have allowed him to kill a couple plainclothes cops first, then send in the SWAT team? Or just send the SWAT team in straight away, but wait until he shot first?
He has his wife and son in the house. It isn’t even an arrest warrant, just a search warrant. He had been talked to by cops before, without violence.
I think the Marine was either involved in crime, or had friends who were. But all they needed to do is go to the door as cops, knock, WAIT FOR AN ANSWER, and then explain they have a search warrant and need to enter.
Based on his previous history, he probably would NOT be a happy camper - but there is no reason to believe he would have pulled a gun on a blue-uniformed cop and started a fight that could kill his wife and son!
However, if you have a crowd of SWAT do a cluster-f$%# at the door (watch the video - if the Marine was a REAL bad guy, he would have shot and killed them from the side window!), gaggle around during 7 seconds of knock/announce before breaking the door down, then yes, you may meet a guy with a gun. After all, you would at my house! I’d be walking into my living room with a 44 in hand, ready to check out the commotion at my door - and then I would be killed for having a gun in my hand.
And if I didn’t die right away, they would keep medical care from coming for 1.5 hours until I did die...
Perhaps you can explain to me why they needed 1+ hours to ‘clear the building’. I guarantee you it would not take the US Army an hour or more to clear a 1500 sq ft house for entry...
The reason this isn't being investigated is the same reason the search warrant isn't being released, they are afraid of what will be found out. This was a massacre of an innocent man, a man who was not involved in crime regardless of your idiotic notions. This man was murdered by the swat team and left to die without medical help because they didn't want him to talk about what had happened.
If you love the police so much that this seems like an honest shoot to you, you have real problems.
yeah... the investigators are showing a "recreation"...."popping out". Cause in a fire fight you want to "pop" out and stay out exposing yourself.
If this is from the video from outside it looked like a static or slow and deliberate entry. I just loved the guys all stacking up and staying in the doorway with some of them firing over the shoulder of others. Nobody pushed in, covered the angles and got out of the funnel. Just a bunch of posers screaming their heads off and shooting till their mags were empty.
Too stupid to plan any detailed entry, and without knowing the layout of the entry way (hallway, room, open on which end) can't even provide a plan for the assault team to cover the corners and clear for the rest of the team.
They got the firepower superiority down and overwhelming force.... just one little thing. They killed a guy that may or may not have been a perp and have absolutely NO credibility.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, one of these days the SWAT guys are going to try this and kill the RELATIVE of a special operator and then they're going to get a taste of asymmetric warfare. With all the deployments and experience floating around with, let's be conservative, 0.5% craziness in the ranks... that still leaves a lot of crazy dudes out there that might not appreciate the po-po shooting up a relative.
These SWAT posers are lazy. Lots of these arrests and I'd say >99% could be made without the BS dynamic or static entry. Give me comms, night vision, tasers and zip ties with 6 guys and two vans... I'd bet I could get these arrests done.... but you see, I wouldn't get to got to the range on full auto on the taxpayers dime, take 'roids and bulk up, qualify for disability and fat pension and then pretend I'm a special operator without the threat of getting killed. It's too much fun to play dress up.
Oh, and how would I justify increasing my budget without these high profile murders.....I mean arrests.
Takes awhile for cop-planted evidence to sprout.
blah blah blah.
So convenient.
If I were on the jury I would treat the testimony of the police in this case just like I treated the testimony of a convicted multiple felon who was testifying about his jailmate. I would assume it to be compromised and lacking any integrity.
Nice attitude you got there, wishing death upon your fellow freepers. Gosh, you’re so morally superior to those cops.
If you watch the video, you'll notice that by 30 seconds into the operation, they've got one suspect down, they haven't cleared any of the rest of the house yet so they don't know if there are any other suspects still in the house, and they're all standing there holding empty weapons.
>Hardly the sort of “execution” that people are making it out to be.
Have you seen the helmet-cam video?
That was an execution: just see how the SWAT team crowds the doorway in order to “get their shot.”
Hell, formal executions (by real firing squads) are more disciplined than that SWAT team.
stolen? From whom?
Reported when?
Recovered?
Resold?
Legally or illegally owned?
Lots of questions remain when only a snippet is released...
and likely intended to mislead.
I haven’t read anything about him being a part of a home-invasion robbery ring. I’ve read that the SWAT guys were briefed that he is connected to a home invasion case from March of last year. And he was. His brother’s sister-in-law was killed in March 2010 in a home invasion. But the warrant said nothing about that. Nothing. And I doubt seriously that Jose Guerena was the lone guy who went in and shot a man, woman, and 2-year-old one night in March 2010. And I haven’t read anything about there being stolen items related to that case. (doesn’t mean there weren’t, but they have not been reported.)
Have you read the redacted warrant? It says nothing about home invasions. It talks about how many cars family members own. And about following Jose’s brother around all over the place.
I’m glad they released this tidbit of info. I was wondering if they had found a Fast and Furious gun in one of the houses. Maybe they did. We don’t have enough info.
Reported stolen in a burglary at a home in the 4300 Block of East Holmes three years ago.
And that’s all the reported details on it. Sloppy suck-up reporting.
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