Posted on 06/18/2011 6:17:16 AM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing
A San Francisco State University instructor writes in Poynter today that the media is misrepresenting some basic features of the debate over the value of a college education. In reviewing recent coverage, Sarah Fidelibus argues that journalists are taking surveys out of context in making the case that a college education isn't worth young people's time and money anymore. The critique comes on the heels of a piece in the New Republic titled "Why the media is always wrong about the value of a college degree."
In the latter article, Education Sector's Kevin Carey mocks media stories that profile woeful Ivy League grads who haven't landed the prestigious jobs they'd hoped for right out of college. He points out that these stories have been running in newspapers for decades--while also noting that an Ivy League education has only become more coveted (and lucrative) over the same period. "They always feature an over-educated bartender, and they are always wrong," Carey writes about the stories.
While The Lookout, too, has noticed a rash of over-hyped headlines about the value of college (ahem, New York magazine), we think these critics are too quick to brush off scholars' concerns about the higher education industry. The often overheated tenor of debate on both ends of the higher-ed question may make it harder to carry out an honest accounting of an industry that already tends to shy away from transparency.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
No federal policies needed, just a demand for scholastic achievement that stems from the head of the school, on down through the teachers and deans, to the students. No more laws necessary.
Yep you touch on the subject of how many degrees are useless in the job market after graduation.
The worst examples may be fields such as Women’s Studies or Gay Studies, or Black Studies. On some level, these courses and majors could be interesting. The study of women could be interesting as an academic interest. HOWEVER, how many employers have job openings for women’s studiers, or black studiers, or philosophers who have majored in Philosophy?
Even those who major in traditional fields such as history or English literature have great difficulties in today’s job market. The business world just doesn’t care that you majored in such subjects.
They like to point to studies that show how much more college grads make over their working lifetime as proof of their worth... but that is a red herring.
Here's why:
Let just say that I create a club today called the super success club... and only the smartest, hardest working, most driven young people in America are allowed to join (let say the top 5% of each high school graduating class are automatically members of the club) Then after 30 to 50 years or so I start releasing data showing that members of the super success club average $2,000,000 more in earnings over their working lifetime, which proves that being a member of this club is very important to your future success ... so important in fact that we are going to start charging for memberships....
and the rest is history.
You see, when you get to select the best of the best, it doesn't mater you if have them draw doodles on plywood for 4 years, when they finish and eventually enter the work force they are still going to outperform their peers. because they are the best.
SAT scores would eliminate me from possibly going to college. I scored under 1000, before they doubled the score count. I did pretty abysmal on it, especially the math portion. Conversely, I scored a 70 on the ASVAB in 2004.
Standardized tests are pretty poor for testing a person’s core intelligence. If a certain subject doesn’t require niche knowledge about it in an argument, I can leave anybody in the dust. This is coming from somebody that spent 5 years in high school, and had to finish in another state’s specialized program.
Education today only teaches a certain set of skills. It cannot make somebody smart. Probably the smartest ones out there are those that self-educate in certain areas. My friend taught himself how to work a computer, and he’s going to tech college for it; he’s even told me he could teach a few of the classes he’s learning right now because he advanced beyond them in his own learnings.
“The study of women could be interesting as an academic interest. “
Yes, actually I did a great deal of that when I was in college.....
Yes, but that is a niche situation. For the most part, if a student is competent in English reading, writing, library skills and speaking; mathematics; economics; government and the law; and basic science and popular technology; they will be able to accomplish a college degree.
And these can be objectively determined for the most part before admission. As you pointed out, however, the SAT and ACT are not the best way of doing so.
That is because CCs are directly reliant on subsidies, whereas 4 year colleges often have vast endowments that provide much of their funding. However, States are now realizing this and pointing out that if 4 year colleges have multi billion dollar endowments, then why do they need so much State subsidy?
But compelled to use those endowments, it will not be long before 4 year colleges need just as much subsidy as do CCs.
Exactly! Our sons did not graduate with debt but their parents went without proper savings for retirement. It was a choice we made knowing we and our employers had “invested” in social security and medicare to help offset our losses at retirement.
People with parents unable to do this, end up screwed all around and it is wrong. Their parents have no retirement beyond what they “invested” in social security and medicare and their children have a mortgage sized debt that assures they get to serve as debt slaves to those who issue debt.
No; they don't. That's the rationalization/.
The education INDUSTRY has them by the balls, telling them that unless they spend 16 years of their lives listening to a bunch of stuff; they'll end up with nothing but ditch diggers.
And we have MACHINES to do THAT!
That ain't FAIR!
This WHAT??
We HAVE to send a lot of folks off for advanced babysitting, because we’ve EXPORTED our mnaufacturing jobs outta this country.
Those assembyline folks are NOW in grad school, awaiting the perks of working the driveup window!
College SPORTS!!!
Title Whatever!!
Let the PRO's subsidize these 'farm teams' instead of the TAXPAYERS!
(We're giving the pro's a play to PLAY their little games in anyway!)
College would have more value if it taught the ability to apply logic, and be able to argue rationally and persuasively. But doing so might result in students who would question Marxist orthodoxy, and so it has been rooted out of academia.
“It’s not the value, it’s the damned price.”
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It’s both, for all that money the universities (there is hardly such a thing as a college that doesn’t call itself a university any longer) turn out far too many graduates who wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in a blast furnace of passing a public high school final exam from fifty years ago. The whole system is grievously flawed from first grade right on through college.
media promotion of “education” = more tax money flowing into “education” = more money in the pockets of leftists = more money in the pockets of the Democrat Party = more elected Democrats = more money flowing into “education” =
loop
“Even those who major in traditional fields such as history or English literature have great difficulties in today’s job market. The business world just doesn’t care that you majored in such subjects.”
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I have talked to some who majored in history at our local university, they don’t know the history I learned in public elementary school, yes I said elementary, they couldn’t qualify to ENTER the public high school history class at a freshman level in my time. This makes me wonder what those who majored in other subjects are actually learning.
“As a college prof, I know that we could provide our education at 1/3 to 1/4 the cost if not for federal student assistance.”
And this is the key to the solution. This problem would go away and institutions of higher learning would reform themselves if student load debt were dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Lenders would be forced to ask “...and can you get a job with that degree and pay me back?”
it would transform everything for the better. No programs necessary.
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