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Talk Radio Cannot Do This Alone (Rush:'...sell the Ryan plan')
Rush Limbaugh Online 5/25/2010 page Transcript ^ | 5/25/2010 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 05/25/2011 8:29:25 PM PDT by sickoflibs

RUSH: Let me tell you something, folks, on this New York 26 business and Paul Ryan's Medicare reform and the Republican budget -- and this cadre of spineless mainstream Republicans that we seem to have in Washington. Let me tell you what needs to happen: Before the end of this day, if any of them are serious about it. one or more of these Republican presidential candidates needs to call a press conference and stand up for the Ryan plan. We can't do it alone on talk radio. We can't do it. You are going to have to speak up. This is a moment -- maybe not "the" moment, but it is "a" moment, a test.

Is there somebody in the Republican Party willing to lead? Arthur pulled the sword out of the rock and became King Arthur. The Republican Party rallied almost in unison behind the Paul Ryan Medicare proposal -- and now one little election, and we find out where the spines in this party are. One little election in which the winner actually ripped Obama and criticized Obama and the Democrats for $500 billion in Medicare cuts. The winner did that, and they're trying to tell us this is a referendum on the Ryan Medicare proposal. We had a fraudulent, phony Tea Party candidate siphoning nine points away from the Republican candidate.

When Ryan announced this, there was -- it wasn't total, but there was -- a wide swath of the Republican Party, conservative, moderate, whatever that got behind it, because everybody knows we can't afford to keep going the way we are. So somebody took the first leadership step, Paul Ryan, now won election and now all of a sudden they want to abandon him. (interruption) You disagree with me on this, Snerdley? I'm just telling you: If it's worth defending when it came out -- if it's worth defending when Ryan announced it -- it's worth defending now. If opposing Obama was worth it when Ryan announced his Medicare reform, it's worth opposing Obama now, regardless the outcome of this election.

I don't care what the media is doing. This is a moment for a leader to stand up. Now, the leader might want to stand up and say, "I think the election shows that we've bitten too much off in one bite of Medicare." I would hope not. You just heard Paul Ryan say, "I'm confident that in the next 15 months the truth will get out there." How? We can't do it alone on talk radio, nor can he do it alone -- and he can't pull it off at town hall meetings alone. He's not gonna reach enough people. It is true that when he speaks to seasoned citizens groups, once they hear what the truth is they're for it. Because it doesn't affect 'em! There's not one seasoned citizen that's affected by the Ryan plan.

The Democrats are lying about this from sunup to sundown, and then some. Not one Medicare recipient will be affected by the Ryan plan. It's all down the road. Nothing unfair about it at all. If the party doesn't have the guts to stand up and stop this demagoguery now... (interruption) The little old lady going over the cliff? Yeah, I've seen the ad. Little old lady going...? I've seen the ad, yeah. It's a great opportunity for leadership, a great opportunity to somebody to stand up and do something about it. What would Netanyahu do? That seems to be the question of the day: What would Bibi Netanyahu do?

If Bibi Netanyahu was running the Republican Party and believed in the Ryan plan, what would he do? Now, I'm toll that the Speaker of the House, John Boehner, just tweeted: "Republican path to prosperity preserves and protects Medicare for retirees and future generations, leaves it completely unchanged for those 55 and over." Boehner also tweeted: "Washington Democrats' budget let's Medicare go bankrupt." Newt Gingrich is defending Ryan's plan now, I'm told. Somebody sees an opportunity here, as do I.


RUSH: Chris Chocola, National Review Online, The Corner blog: "Political pundits will say that the Republican candidate for Congress in NY-26 lost because of Medicare. They’re wrong. This election was more of a referendum on a candidate’s ability to defend freedom than anything else. In NY-26, the Republican party nominated a fairly conservative establishment Republican in Jane Corwin, but an ex-Democrat named Jack Davis, running as a 'Tea-Party' candidate, siphoned votes from the Republican. The reason was not that Davis is obviously more conservative or because Corwin is not sufficiently conservative: It’s because Corwin did a terrible job articulating the free-market message, and Davis consistently demagogued the important issue of trade."

Now, this is a fundamental point, and there's one thing everybody better remember. Every elected Republican seeking reelection November 12 better remember one thing: The November elections of 2010 were not about you. Nobody voted for you. They voted against Democrats. You cannot expect to go into a campaign such as New York 26 and not have a message and expect to win simply because your opponent's a Democrat. Especially when the Democrats are desperate and they're gonna bring in a ringer, a fraudulent Tea Party guy to siphon Republican votes. Chocola's point is you better have a conservative message. It better be conservative. That's what wins. Just take a look Wisconsin. It wins every time it's tried, folks. And that sends chills down the spines of Republicans as well in Washington.

If any Republican running for office in 2012 cannot articulate, defend, explain, conservative principles, they're gonna lose. November 2010 was unique. That was an anti-Democrat, anti-Obama vote. And it could be on the national presidential level, could be the same thing in 2012, depending on the economy. But you start getting in these local congressional races and so forth, and it's gonna matter who you are, what you stand for, and you better not be bashful, and you'd better not be afraid of being conservative, and you'd better not be afraid of saying so, and you better be able to say so. Conservatism didn't get beat here.

Here's Mark in Buffalo. Great to have you on the program, sir. Hi.

CALLER: Rush, a great, great thrill to talk to you. I know that Snerdley can verify much of what I'm telling you. He's got some roots in this area, so I won't take up much of your time. I just wanted to tell you that the seat became available because as you may remember, Chris Lee gave up this seat when he was found to have posted semiclothed pictures of himself on --

RUSH: Right. I've got 30 seconds. I didn't read the clock right. Can you do it in 30 seconds?

CALLER: Right, right. The candidate that was presented was not a strong Republican. The Tea Party candidate was obviously not a Tea Party candidate, and the Democrat was a serious Dem. What ended up happening was the Republican ran a very poor kind of campaign --

RUSH: Exactly.

CALLER: -- and assumed that she was going to win --

RUSH: Exactly.

CALLER: -- because it's a fairly Republican district.

RUSH: Exactly, no reason to stick my neck out. No reason to really say, "I got this in the bag, country hates the Democrats." No reason for me to make myself a target. Right. I'm really reining it in here, folks, isn't gonna cut it.


RUSH: If you are a Republican running for office in 2012 and you are a conservative, be proud of it. Don't be bashful. Be able to defend conservatism. Be able to articulate it. Do it with energy, affection, excitement. It will carry you. Really no mystery here. But you can't get elected sitting around taking no chances, figuring everybody's gonna vote against the Democrats again.


RUSH: Back to New York 26 here for just a second and to try to put things in perspective. The Republicans won that seat in 2008 by six points. When you combine the GOP and the phony Tea Party vote, they woulda won this time by five points after the Democrats poured millions of dollars into this election. Now, here's what they're saying at The Politico: "And for the first time since November, the idea that Democrats might have a shot at winning back the House is no longer a laughing matter." So you see, they are trying to reassure themselves that they are not in deep doo-doo, and they are in deep doo-doo. Now that the New York election is safely stolen, the Obama people are claiming they were behind it.

From The Politico: "Team Obama helped Hochul ... Organizing for America, played a significant supporting role in efforts to amp turnout for Kathy Hochul." Okay, now that they've stole the election, the regime is saying, "Hey, we did it, we did it, we did it." And I just reiterate this one more time before moving on. If you are Republican and if you are going to seek reelection you better be able to explain conservatism happy and with confidence, and you better not be afraid to do so. You can't sit around and think that the Democrat candidate is gonna be voted against and that you're gonna be the beneficiary of that and you can basically not ruffle any feathers. You're going to have to ruffle the media feathers. The media is gonna get ruffled, you can't escape it.

And as another aside for the Republican Party at large, it is clear that they are scared to death of Paul Ryan's Medicare proposal, they are scared to death of it. Is there any leadership, is there anybody in the Republican Party willing to come out today publicly, loudly and proudly and defend your own budget? We can't do it all on talk radio. It's a great opportunity for some leadership to surface here. It's a great opportunity for somebody. You can see what the Democrats are thinking of this in the media today and what they have at stake here. The temptation, "Let it go, you know, special election, odd, weird, New York 26. Rush, we don't even want to mention it, people are gonna forget about this by tomorrow, it's no big --" no, they're not. The media is not gonna forget about it. The narrative, the template is being written even as we speak.


RUSH: Bremerton, Washington, next and Jason. Great to have you with us, sir. Hi.

CALLER: Hi, Rush. Let me just add you a little bit to what you were saying earlier about the New York race. Related to that race, the reason that it was lost -- and we will lose other races in the future -- is the fact that Republicans have very few candidates or members of the House that can speak coherently about issues, or in this case either the Ryan Medicare plan or the Ryan budget. The Democrat scare machine is effective. The Republican counter to that, which would be facts, isn't. They just back away with their tail stuck between their legs. My proof is the fact that a majority of the members of Congress can't even speak to what the Ryan Medicare plan is, what it does, or what the Ryan budget does, and I can go on.

RUSH: Well, now, wait just a second. I need to ask you how you know that --

CALLER: I watch 'em on TV. They sit there and look dumbfounded, go back to their talking points.

RUSH: But you've seen over half the Republicans...?

CALLER: All they do is stand behind Paul Ryan and look like little bobble heads.

RUSH: No. No, no.

CALLER: If you were to ask them what is in the plan they would give you a deer-in-the-headlights look.

RUSH: No, I'm talking numbers. You're saying that 150 Republicans in the House do not know or 120 do not know?

CALLER: They do not know the issue front-to-back, left to right, up or down. They can go to various talking points, but they don't know what the whole issue or what they support is. They do not speak in a coherent manner.

RUSH: Now, where you getting this?

CALLER: It's my observation.

RUSH: Your observation. Well, I know that the Tea Party candidates all can.

CALLER: Well, there aren't very many of those.

RUSH: Well, there's 59 of 'em.

CALLER: I would like 59 Chris Christies.

RUSH: Well, I'm not here to throw cold water on anybody. I understand there's a great deal of excitement for Governor Christie.

CALLER: I'm just speaking from a being able to articulate what they are speaking about.

RUSH: Well, if they can't it's a problem. It's the clear route to victory: Conservatism, artfully spoken, passionately promoted, confidently expressed. I'll tell you something. It's always easier to just make up lies, like the Democrats do, rather than try to explain a complex piece of legislation. You know, 99% of the Democrat playbook is made up of scare tactics. "If you don't do X, then Y will happen," and usually that means your death. You're gonna die. That's the Democrat playbook. Just fill in the blanks, and you've got their strategy. They never take the substance of anything on. They just claim it's gonna kill you. That's what the Democrats do, and explaining facts is a little bit more complicated than that -- and sometimes if you're not very good at it, it can sound boring at the same time. That's why being able to articulate conservatism philosophically is fundamental here. That's fun. That's -- and it's enlightening to a lot of people. Now, here's Dingy Harry just to show you how the Democrats are making hay out of this today. This afternoon he had a little press conference to talk about New York 26.

REID: (shutter clicks throughout) Last night the people of America resoundingly spoke in rejecting the Republican plan to end Medicare as we know it. This is New York's 26th district. Now, the question to my Republican colleagues is basically this -- it's very simple -- Will you listen to the American people? Because their message could not be clearer. There's been a Republican victory for decades, at least four decades. This belonged to Jack Kemp. Just six months ago the congressional district went Republican by a three-to-one margin, but it changed last night. Why? Because the number one, two, and three issue in that congressional district as it is all over the country is destroying Medicare as we know it, putting insurance companies between patients and their physicians.

RUSH: Oh-ho, man. From the party that is destroying Medicare, from the party that is destroying private sector health care comes Harry Reid lying through his teeth. Nothing could be further from the truth than what he said here. New York's 26th district is being portrayed here as the American people and that Medicare reform -- Paul Ryan's budget -- was on the ballot. The winning candidate -- I'm gonna get blue in the face saying this. The winning candidate criticized Obama and the Democrats for $500 billion in Medicare cuts. The winning candidate. You might say that a conservative message did win. It just wasn't articulated by the Republican. The Democrat won by four points with a fraudulent Tea Party candidate in the race. The Democrats did not even win the majority. "Resounding vote," my rear end! They didn't win a majority in this. It's why it's not time to panic. Scott in Rockford, Illinois. Great that you called, sir. Welcome to the EIB Network.

CALLER: Hi, Rush. Pleasure speaking with you.

RUSH: Thank you.

CALLER: I was curious of what your thoughts were on why our vice president isn't taking over going down to Missouri when Obama's off doing whatever he's doing.

RUSH: I have no idea.

CALLER: (chuckles)

RUSH: I don't think Biden knows, either. My guess is they probably don't trust sending him.

CALLER: Yeah, that's true.

RUSH: You know, what's he gonna say when he gets there? I really do think that they try to rein the guy in. He's a walking gaffe.

CALLER: Yeah. (chuckles)

RUSH: And he tries to make jokes, he tries to be funny. This is not the place or the time for this kind of thing. I really think there's an effort to keep him sort of sequestered.

CALLER: Yeah, I kind of believe that because I think he should be down there.

RUSH: Well, he is not. I don't think the people of Joplin are saying, "Where's the Vice President?" I don't think the people of Joplin are running around, "Hey, where's Joe Biden? Gosh, I wish Joe Biden was here!" In addition to that, Obama's not gonna allow himself to be upstaged on this. He's gonna swoop in there on Sunday like Superman and save the day. Ann in Buffalo, New York -- this is near New York 26, by the way -- it's great to have you on the program.

CALLER: Thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to say this about our election yesterday. That election boiled down to this. It was a vote to support the Obama agenda in Washington or it was a vote basically against it and for our constitutional republic. It was not stated that way. I worked on the Jane Corwin campaign. They gave us sheets of paper to read on the phone when we called somebody. I finally just stopped saying that, and I finally started telling people, "This election boils down to either you're gonna put another vote in Washington to support the Obama agenda or you're gonna send somebody there who may actually bring forward a conservative vote."

RUSH: Now, wait a second. What did they have you saying?

CALLER: They had us saying, "Can we count on your support for Jane?" Or, if people would ask us questions, then we would read bullet points off the the sheet.

RUSH: Okay, so let me get this straight. You're on the phone bank --


RUSH: -- and you're calling out and you're trying to get people to vote.


RUSH: You're trying to get 'em to the polls --

CALLER: That's it.

RUSH: -- and number one on the list, "Can we count on your support for Jane?"


RUSH: That's number one?


RUSH: And then after that, it was up to them to ask questions before you would provide any substance?

CALLER: Not me! (bursts out laughing)

RUSH: No, but I mean the instructions.


RUSH: The instructions that you got.

CALLER: Yeah. If the person had questions, I would say, "Do you have any questions about this?" because they would either say, "Yes, you can count on support" or, "No," and I would say, "Have you got any questions?" and if they asked a question, I could go directly to the conservative point.

RUSH: Okay. So you

CALLER: But she didn't think.

RUSH: You went improv on anybody.


RUSH: You said, "Let me tell you what this election's about."


RUSH: You went off the page.


RUSH: See I told you, Snerdley.

CALLER: That's it exactly, Rush. If this is gonna be another McCain in 2012 work if they put a candidate up there that sounds like a politician, acts like a politician, and does not come down as a conservative person who believes in what he's saying.

RUSH: See, this is the mainstream Republican mind-set: Anti-conservative, afraid to articulate the conservative point of view. (interruption) Well, 'cause I know who the... "How do I always know these things?" I just know what people stand for and what they're afraid of. In this case the Republicans are afraid of conservatism, so they're not gonna have their phone bank people say anything about it.


RUSH: I've spent some time here delving into and digging deep into this New York 26, and I must issue you people an apology. If I were Japanese, I would resign, as a matter of honor 'cause I have committed a grave disservice by being entirely ignorant. I mean, I really did not know that this election was taking place. I really didn't know. I gotta do a Herman Cain here. He said he didn't know what the "right of return" was. I did not know this election was taking place, and I apologize profusely and profoundly. (interruption) Well, "It's my job, man," to know these things. It's my business, Snerdley, to know these things, and on this occasion I just didn't know.

But nevertheless, nonetheless, I have now taken time to dig deep and delve into this -- and it's clear what the mistakes were. And I want to thank you, Snerdley, for storming in here. I was having lunch, and he didn't care. I mean, he was fuming. Spittle very nearly ended up on my desk. He came storming over. I thought you were a caller! The media was being unfair. Media this, media that. Snerdley was ready to cash it in, just quit. "All right, fine! Forget Medicare reform. Let it go broke and let people find out," and a lot of his anger was focused at the media, which I really... I don't have any patience for people mad at the media because it's like being mad at the sun for coming up."

I mean it's who they are, and they're not going to change, and I know: I hate arrogance, and I hate liars, and I hate people lying about me and all it is, but it is what it is. At some point, it can't be an excuse. There are ways to work around it. We win elections despite them so it's possible to do, obviously. In this case, whoever strategized this blew it, and that leads me to another thing that is not gonna ingratiate me here with party apparatchiks. You know, we've got the political consultants on our side who think they know how to win races. They don't want any part of the Christine O'Donnell race -- and, by the way, Christine O'Donnell did just as well as Meg Whitman did in California, percentage-wise. The people running Meg Whitman's race did just as bad as Christine O'Donnell.

I kid you not. She got shellacked just as badly as O'Donnell did on a percentage basis. It wasn't even close. But of course you never hear it said that way. But the couple times fight for the 20%. The consultants fight for moderates. There wasn't any conservatism in this message. In fact, if this race had been nationalized rather than localized? The consultants probably said, "Okay, here we got Jack Kemp's district. We got a district goes Republicans, so okay, we got that. That's a checkmark. That's one of our strengths. We don't need to do anything 'cause we've got that." So they focused on again going out and getting the 20%, whatever it is, 25% moderates, which means you deemphasize conservatism.

This is my problem with consultancy: They deemphasize the strength. They also deemphasize the strength 'cause they don't like it. Conservatism in the Republican Party, it's got its enemies, as we have long discussed and well documented here. But if this race had been nationalized, if the dirty tricks had been addressed, if the candidate had been able to articulate what Paul Ryan's budget is, this would have been entirely different story -- and those are ifs that are relevant because those are things that coulda changed. Now, the Democrats had the phony Tea Party guy in there, and it is important to say, the Democrats did not win this with their ideas.

The Democrats did not win this with liberal ideas. Liberal ideas were not on the ballot; liberal ideas did not triumph here. The Democrats had to go in and lie and defraud and cheat, they had to have a phony Tea Party guy to confuse voters, you know, classic dirty tricks. Liberalism didn't win -- and this is why cautioning everybody not to be so down in the dumps about this. The reason to be alarmed is this continuing, ongoing reluctance on the part of inside the Beltway, establishment Republicans to go conservative. That is a problem. But let me contrast this for you. Here's Harry Reid (we just played the sound bite) and, of course, he's going to say it, but let's examine it rationally.

He said that New York race proves the nation wants more Obama and Reid policies, wants more Obamacare, wants more liberalism. Fine, Senator Reid. Where is your Medicare plan? Where is your budget? If the country wants more of what you have to offer, why don't you offer it? The Democrats have yet to present a formal budget for this year, and this year will expire at the end of September. They haven't presented a thing. All they're doing is saying "no" and lying about what the Republican plans are. You know, I could go all Civics 101 on you and say that the Republicans are the ones who are actually trying to tackle the problems, and they are -- just like Bush tried to tackle Social Security, and we know what happened.

He gave up on it 'cause it was being demagogued to death, but there's a reason. I was all for it, by the way. I thought it was a bold step, and what he was going to do was not that dramatic. It was typical. It was what the Democrats are saying should be now, and what the Republicans are saying we should do now to Medicare. It was phase-in. It wasn't one big bite. But it still got demagogued all to hell, just like this is being demagogued all to hell. So the question comes down to what do you do? We have a problem that's breaking our bank, it's going bankrupt, and we can't afford it for much longer.

Do we solve it? Come up with a plan, take the plan out and say, "Here's the plan, we gotta fix this," or do we not do that because that's making us too big a target and it's guaranteed to lose, so let's just forget it? The theory being we have to win elections and we can't win elections by reforming entitlements. Third rail. We'll get electrocuted; we're gonna die; we just have to -- can't do it. If the party goes that way, you can kiss the Tea Party good-bye and say, "Hello, third party." If the Republican Party bails on tackling these things, the Tea Party will just vanish as an element of the Republican Party. It's "Hello, third party," and that's, you know, "Welcome back, Obama."


RUSH: Columbus, Ohio. This is Bob, you're you up next on the EIB Network. Hello.

CALLER: Hey, conservative Cincinnati [dittos] to you, Rush.

RUSH: Thank you, sir, very much.

CALLER: I was calling with a point to make about Harry Reid you were discussing earlier how he didn't interpret the New York votes -- or he did interpret the New York vote -- as a national mandated against Medicare reform.

RUSH: That's right.

CALLER: But he did not interpret Scott Brown's senatorial victory in the Democratic Mecca of Massachusetts as a national referendum.

RUSH: Of course not, nor did he interpret what happened in Wisconsin as a national referendum against public and state unions.

CALLER: Exactly. What about the interpretation of the 2010 election against deficit spending? I mean, I guess his interpreting skills are selective.

RUSH: No, it's just classic. It's propaganda; it's the spin. It's what the Democrats do. Harry goes out and says it; it becomes a story in the media. The Democrats turn it into a story, and the headline to the story, "Reid: New York 26 proves America doesn't want Ryan health care reform," then they go out and interview economists and experts about it, and they'll get people that agree, and that's how the Democrats create a news story. He's the Senate majority leader -- and then they create a news story and then it goes to the AP and then you got a headline that ends up in every American newspaper and on every American radio news network. Whether it's true or not, this is how they do it. This is how they make news: With lies and misrepresentations. It's just one of the realities we're always gonna have.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: broke; debt; deficit; medicare; obama; palin; ryanplan
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From above :"If any Republican running for office in 2012 cannot articulate, defend, explain, conservative principles, they're gonna lose."

That is certainly true and has been sorely missing in Republicans for a long time.

However this Ryan plan needs work, and is not as easy to defend as Rush makes out especially given entitlement reform is a politically toxic issue. The 55 year old threshold gimmick was not very well thought out, but Rush uses it to defend the plan. And Republicans were defending meducare from cuts last year, that does NOT HELP sell this plan.

Democrats and Republicans have swapped political roles since just last year, one side proposes and votes, the other sits back and attacks. One side has it easy, the other gets ambushed.

1 posted on 05/25/2011 8:29:31 PM PDT by sickoflibs
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To: sickoflibs

Up to 99.8% right. But they won’t. They are the GOP. They are not Conservatives.

2 posted on 05/25/2011 8:31:30 PM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: garandgal; GailA; org.whodat; rightwingintelligentsia; dalebert; Qbert; jeltz25; ncalburt; ...

Was curious what Rush had to say. What his advice was.

3 posted on 05/25/2011 8:31:46 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs
There is not one current candidate that will advocate for the Ryan plan.

At least one could say "I believe he got most of the principles correct, but I would change x, y z".

None of them.


4 posted on 05/25/2011 8:32:34 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: sickoflibs

Hugh Hewitt also went ballistic today, asking Where are the Republicans on the talk shows? Why are they hiding?

5 posted on 05/25/2011 8:35:25 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Just once I'd like someone to call me 'Sir' without adding 'You're making a scene.' - Homer Simpson)
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To: sickoflibs
One of Rush's best shows in a long time. He laid it out for the Republicans with brutal honesty. Basically told them they they’ve gotten lazy and expect conservative talk radio and Fox News to articulate and sell their message for them. He told them they are going to lose in 2012 if they seem scared of defending their own principles. He was specially talking about the Ryan plan, how Republicans have sat back and let democrats portray it as killing Granny and seem to be scared or embarassed to defend it
6 posted on 05/25/2011 8:38:19 PM PDT by apillar
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To: Mariner; garandgal; GailA; org.whodat; rightwingintelligentsia; dalebert; Qbert; jeltz25; ...
RE :”At least one could say “I believe he got most of the principles correct, but I would change x, y z”.

I agree that is the right approach. I suspect that is what most will be saying.

Medicare is always very dangerous territory. If it was me in the House I would have proposed a plan with a consumer choice between the privatized Ryan plans and a scaled back traditional medicare option for EVERYONE, not protecting special voters.

For one thing you cant protect all those over 55 with everyone else footing the bill later getting thrown off the ship. How is a future 67 year old going to get private insurance when those a few years older are part of a massive medicare pool to demand low prices? It looks’s like those under 55 are thrown off the cruise ship into the ocean(after they retire) and told to swim on their own, to protect important voters OVER 55 on the cruise ship. and that is the big defense of the bill.

You also need a public option (traditional medicare and medicaid) for those in nursing homes with no assets many of those that can no longer make decisions. There is no private option for them. Their private option is you-know-what, ‘Soylent Green Going Home’. That is a bigger problem than many know, a huge budget buster. Example : Nursing homes on the east cost ~ 6K per month, = 72K per year. So lets see, the fellow retiring at a salary of 50K lives 15 years in a nursing home and would have to save 1.08 million dollars plus for his retirement with a boom bust economy. There is no way that is happening so this needs to be approached honestly.

Something huge like this would have to be phased in to allow market (and political) forces to work, no way around it. And it would have to be sold to voters over time, carefully attacking laying out the alternatives that Democrats propose, doing nothing but raising taxes.

They never asked me LOL, but I did call up Ryan about a month ago and told his office that they better do a better job selling their plan 'or else'.

7 posted on 05/25/2011 9:11:03 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: Mariner

After seeing what happened to President Bush when he tried to save SS a few years back and watching how this attempt to save Medicare is playing out, it appears to me that our politicians are too spineless to do what needs to be done to reform any of the bankrupt programs until they totally crash. It is very disheartening but I have yet to see ANY display of backbone by the Republicans to make me believe they are serious about actually cutting the spending anywhere in federal government even a little bit, much less really trying to reform entitlements.

8 posted on 05/25/2011 9:12:29 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: screaminsunshine; Jeff Chandler; apillar; jospehm20
My thoughts on this issue: #7
9 posted on 05/25/2011 9:28:52 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs
"So lets see, the fellow retiring at a salary of 50K lives 15 years in a nursing home and would have to save 1.08 million dollars plus for his retirement with a boom bust economy. "

So you are saying that somebody who never paid $1mil in taxes...even if all payments over a 40 year working life earned 8% interest...should have their living expenses paid by the working population and borrowing?

And, it doesn't matter if somebody paid $5mil in taxes over their lifetimes. With medical technology and organized care as good as it is today...with folks living well into their 80s and 90s... we could soon see us paying millions of dollars for every retiree.

Well, we would if that much money existed in the world.

It doesn't.

It's not a matter of compassion or the sanctity of life at that point. We will not have the ability to fund every conceivable medical procedure and assisted care "need" for everyone. We simply do not have the resources even if every resource in the country is dedicated to only that.

What then?

Medical care and assisted living have to be "rationed" in some way, shape form or fashion. It could be a government insurance company...the market...the family.

But they will be rationed.

10 posted on 05/25/2011 9:35:44 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: apillar
The Republican establishment types (inside the beltway RINOs and other country club RINOs) fully intend to destroy the Tea Party and Conservatives because they are a threat to the cozy Donkey-RINO cabal in DC.

The current so-called “leaders” have absolutely NO intention of rocking the boat with their Donkey buddies. They are firmly committed to selling the majority of Americans into FedGov slavery with themselves as the owners of the plantation.

Any true Republican who hopes to have a chance in this election cycle, had better demonstrate some REAL leadership — engage the Donkeys, show a spine of steel, and grow cajones. There are only a handful of current Republicans (male and female) who have a remote chance of this.

11 posted on 05/25/2011 9:37:32 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: apillar
The Republican establishment types (inside the beltway RINOs and other country club RINOs) fully intend to destroy the Tea Party and Conservatives because they are a threat to the cozy Donkey-RINO cabal in DC.

The current so-called “leaders” have absolutely NO intention of rocking the boat with their Donkey buddies. They are firmly committed to selling the majority of Americans into FedGov slavery with themselves as the owners of the plantation.

Any true Republican who hopes to have a chance in this election cycle, had better demonstrate some REAL leadership — engage the Donkeys, show a spine of steel, and grow cajones. There are only a handful of current Republicans (male and female) who have a remote chance of this.

12 posted on 05/25/2011 9:37:36 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: garandgal; GailA; org.whodat; rightwingintelligentsia; dalebert; Qbert; jeltz25; ncalburt; ...
Reference below same program as this thread above Rush says yesterdays NY special election is not about Ryan plan. Rush said he didnt know that there was even an election in NY yesterday until he saw the stories today, but I noticed MSNBC was telling voters about this election for weeks and telling them it was about the Ryan plan and to vote against Republicans.

Rush said as soon as seniors at town hall meetings are told that the reform doesnt affect them personally that they change their minds and support it and for us to get that message out to more seniors that they are protected and should support it.

Rush also said this election and Ryan's plan has NOTHING to do with the 2012 election. He says the Democrats are in a panic terrified of the next election. He said Democrats are on the run. He said "Don't doubt me!".

Get a Grip, Wishy Washy GOP! Dems Pull Off Fraud Win in NY-26(Rush transcript online FR post 25 May 2011 )

13 posted on 05/25/2011 10:09:01 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs
The Rat that won NY26 was just telling Rachael Maddow how it wasn't just medicare tampering that won it for her, but the fact that small businesses pay more than large corporations in taxes, and that millionaires and billionaires aren't sacrificing during these hard times- oh, and something about controlling spending and her willingness to tackle things like entitlement programs.

1. medicare reform is toxic- especially when the MFM has Granny going over a cliff from a wheelchair pushed by a republican.(attack on elder abuse)
2. Big businesses pay lower taxes while sending jobs overseas while small businesses take the hit on taxes.(anti-trade/anti-corporate/anti-capitalist message, disregards insane tax policy at home).
3. Rich people are always popular as hate-targets, even though they pay the majority of all taxes- go figure.(Class envy, pure Marxism, Rules For Radicals 101, etc.)
4. Control spending- say it, even though you know it'll never happen. Reform entitlements? Not hardly. Too good a club to hit your opponent over the head with- not getting done in this or any lifetime. Keep promising Granny the sun, deliver squat and let the "Death Panel" literally stab her in the back and then push her over the cliff.

Dick Morris offered some interesting numbers to Bill O'Reilly tonight: that medicare is peanuts compared to medicaid, unemployment, section 8 housing, and food stamps via their devastating growth in the budget.

Amazingly, the commie bastards have just about defeated America without firing a shot. They appointed judges, elected socialists to write our laws, took over our schools, dominated our entertainment industry, urged us to kill our babies, insisted we leave our borders open to invasion, and worst of all- ignored our charter, our Constitution, by subverting it.

Fortunately, the solution lies in the Declaration of Independence if things go too wrong. Suffering abuses has it's limits. It'll be interesting to see how far the commie left intends to push, if they haven't pushed too far already. Unmoored such as they are, to a document as antiquated and indecipherable as the Constitution, we shall see. We shall see.

14 posted on 05/25/2011 11:04:01 PM PDT by budwiesest (It's that girl from Alaska, again.)
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To: budwiesest

It is two late to reply tonight but I like your points.

15 posted on 05/25/2011 11:15:21 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs

Here it is from the Man Himself, Paul Ryan,

16 posted on 05/26/2011 4:13:58 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: sickoflibs
Rush is wrong, the doofus that won the seat last year did so with 68% of the vote, the republican that lost yesterday lost by 24%; the fake tea guy got 8%: the figures do not lie, you can blame it on the fake 8% all you want, it will not fly, if the republican had all of the 8% he would have lost by only 16%, damn, what happened to your math RUSH????
17 posted on 05/26/2011 5:04:11 AM PDT by org.whodat
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To: ballplayer; garandgal; GailA; org.whodat; rightwingintelligentsia; dalebert; Qbert; jeltz25; ...
RE:”Here it is from the Man Himself, Paul Ryan,

Thanks I can improve that :)

That link you gave
Rep. Ryan Gives the Facts About Medicare and GOP Budget Plan(Breitbart TV link) just points to a youtube post of that Ryan video :
(Youtube Paul Ryan) The Path to Prosperity (Episode 2): Saving Medicare, Visualized and to another link to this transcript of Ryan on that video:

Washington has not been honest with you about Medicare. Medicare is a critical program which helps seniors achieve health security. But the truth is it’s headed for a painful collapse.

We can save Medicare, but we have to reform it so that it delivers the high quality we expect, at a price we can afford.

Let’s take a look at: what’s going on now; why it’s happening; and how we can save and strengthen this program.

The average American household spends nearly 50 times more on health care today than it spent in 1960. This translates into health care costs of more than $25,000 per US family, every year.

As a result, health care spending has gone from consuming just five percent of our economy to nearly one-fifth of our entire economy today.

While a lot needs fixing in health care, independent experts agree Medicare is a top driver of these unsustainable costs. If we do nothing, Medicare spending will nearly double over the next decade, exhausting its remaining funds.

Here’s why: More than 75 percent of Medicare recipients, which is 35 million people, receive what’s called the fee-for-service insurance plan.

Here’s how it works: A Medicare patient goes to the doctor and receives health care services. The doctor sends the bill for these services to Medicare, and Medicare reimburses the doctor — with your tax dollars and borrowed money — no questions asked.

This system increases costs and decreases quality for two reasons:

First, as you can see, the patient is very disconnected from the cost. We all pay for Medicare, through taxes or, if you’re a Medicare patient, through premiums. But the true cost is hidden from the Medicare patient because someone else pays the actual bill. When we pay directly for something, and we know how much it costs, we have a strong incentive to demand the best value. In health care, we don’t.

The second reason costs are going up and quality is going down is that fee-for-service Medicare insurance has no competition — so it reimburses all doctors and hospitals the same, even if the quality of the care they provide is poor, and the cost of their care is high. Meaning that there is little financial incentive for doctors and hospitals to deliver the best care at the lowest price.

Many experts agree that this leads to rising costs but the disagreement is over what to do about it.

The President’s plan is to let a panel of 15 unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats decide how much, or how little, Medicare will pay doctors and which services Medicare will, or will not, pay doctors to provide for their patients.

These are price controls, and we’ve tried them before. They encourage more consumption, and they force doctors to charge their non-Medicare patients more. That pushes costs up, not down.

If we keep going down this path, many doctors will stop seeing Medicare patients altogether restricting access to health care for seniors, and leading to waiting lists and denied care.

How We Can Save Medicare

There is another, better approach. The House-passed budget – The Path to Prosperity – saves Medicare for current seniors and strengthens it for future generations.

Those in or near retirement should not be forced to reorganize their lives because of government’s mistakes. That’s why our budget ensures no changes for those 55 years old or older. But for current taxpayers and future generations, we need real reform.

Rather than putting the government in charge, our plan provides financial support to help future Medicare patients pay for the insurance plan that works best for them and their families.

Patients will have the freedom to choose from a list of guaranteed coverage options – the same kind of system members of Congress enjoy today.

And insurance providers, competing for patients’ business, will look to lower the costs and increase quality for their services – the way it always works when the consumer is in charge.

Our plan also ensures lower-income seniors and those with greater health care risks will receive greater support, while wealthy seniors receive less.

The urgent need to reform Medicare and the President’s misguided approach have left us with a serious question to ask: Who should be making health-care decisions for you and your family?

A government monopoly and a panel of bureaucrats in Washington DC?

Or you?

18 posted on 05/26/2011 5:09:56 AM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs
Was curious what Rush had to say. What his advice was.

Who sentence month?

19 posted on 05/26/2011 5:12:03 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans freed the Slaves Month")
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To: sickoflibs

OK—I got the message on the first three pings to this thread; thanks.

20 posted on 05/26/2011 5:12:32 AM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia (Be careful of believing something just because you want it to be true.)
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