What?
Oh.
Ummm .... No pun intended on that either.
Posted on 05/06/2011 7:48:42 AM PDT by Dogbert41
Reena Ninan, FOX reporter on Syria today, "While the world was watching the capture, no actually the murder of Osama Bin Laden"....
A soldier can kill the enemy anytime until he is actually captured. Even with hand up and acting like they are surrendering is not good enough. WWII enemies sometimes acted like they were surrendering but instead were luring soldiers in to be ambushed. OBL was not murdered.
So, if a 5’2” woman who is in custody can steal a rifle and kill American servicemen, does that mean we should just line up every terrorist we have in custody against a wall and get it over with?
My problem is that, according to Leon Pannetta, this was a “Kill Mission”. The predetermined outcome was that Osama bin Laden would die.
Ask Vicki Weaver or David Kouresh what they think about US Government Kill Missions. Oh, wait a minute... you can’t... because they’re dead!
I have no problem with the military targeting leaders, or even common soldiers, anytime and anywhere. If we had pulverized this entire compound with 20,000 pounds of JDAMs, I would have had no problem with that.
But when somebody is rousted out of bed and is standing there with his hands in the air trying to surrender, you can’t just shoot him in the head, no matter who he is.
Is that the way this went down? I have no idea. In at least a few of the 72 versions were getting from the White House, he was shot while trying to surrender. But who knows?
But, according to Pannetta, that would not matter. Osama bin Laden was to be killed on sight, no matter what. It was a Kill Mission, and allowing him to surrender was not an option.
And, finally, I agree completely with Polybius’ point that the less said about this sort of thing the better. If I had my druthers, we would not even have annouced bin Laden was dead, and let the terrorists figure it out on their own.
I agree you have problems....but it doesn’t matter how this man who attacked American, unarmed children and adults on 9/11 without provocation dies...as long as he’s gone to prevent him from doing it again.
It just doesn’t matter how he went down..
I agree 95%. The 5% I don’t agree with is the image of the Sausage Fairy that has invaded my mind.
Whatever you think about the respective killings of Vicki Weaver, David Koresh, and Osama bin Laden, I think it’s fair to say that different rules apply to killing foreign combatants in the course a foreign war than to killing U.S. citizens in a domestic law enforcement action.
Yeah, they used tanks at Waco. They didn't use any tanks to go after bin Laden.
What?
Oh.
Ummm .... No pun intended on that either.
It's all just semantics anyway. The Seals did what they were ordered to do, and that's all that matters. Murder is a legal definition, and the act was committed in Pakistan. They can label it murder if they like, and they can send the Paki police to America to find and apprehend the Seal team, if they can.
The Seals shot bin Laden dead, as ordered and as he deserved. It's war and he was a very dangerous combatant that the Seal team (and their commanders all the way up the chain) did not wish to take chances with. He had several thousand kills under his belt to reinforce that evaluation of the situation.
Philadelphia Police drop bomb on MOVE armed compound, May 13, 1985. Three city blocks were destroyed.
You’re mistaken about that as well.....no comparison.... and no wonder you’re having problems understanding the execution of Osama....your wires are so crossed it would be close to impossible for you to unravel them.
You just can’t get it...and you probably never will.
So....you think that a killer, and no#1 most wanted...who took down 3000 people in one shot..if he had his little hands in the air to surrender should have been able to do so?
Ossma said he would never surrender...we know this...he gave instructions to his men to kill him if he was captured...do you really think that this man was even cabable of surrendering....I would assume you do...therefore you can’t understand the situation.
Yes, I do.
"There he is, to your left! POP. POP. POP."
That's the way it went down. .... Polybius
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So, if a 5’2” woman who is in custody can steal a rifle and kill American servicemen, does that mean we should just line up every terrorist we have in custody against a wall and get it over with? ..... Haiku Guy
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Do you always come up with ridiculously absurd Strawman arguments that have absolutely no relationship whatsoever with the original situation?
The death of 3,000 innocent civilians should be considered an "Inconvenience"?
The split second decisions made by a SEAL Team when they burst into a room in a raid are equivalent to "lining up terrorists against a wall"?
Have you absolutely no sense of reality? Have you absolutely no sense of time and space? Have you never even played baseball where, in a split second, you must decide whether to swing at a pitch or not? Has your life been so totally sheltered that you have never had to make a single split second decision of any consequence in your entire life?
Let's illustrate my stated scenario and your Strawman scenario with an historical example:
It was April 29,1945 and the German concentration camp at Dachau was being liberated. Let us assume that, while securing the camp, a group of G.I.'s kicked in a door in a building, stormed a room, saw motion and a German uniform behind them and (POP. POP. POP.) there was a dead German that happened to have been an unarmed file clerk.
War sh#t happens. C'est la guerre. It's called "Fog of War".
That is what happens when you burst into a room or a child runs right in front of your car and, in a split second, you must make recognition, evaluation and muscular movements that will have life and death consequences.
That is what I am talking about.
Here is your Strawman scenrio that actually happened on April 29,1945. After the Dachau camp was secured, without any split second decisions to be made, the German guards were lined up against the wall and shot.
Do you see the difference between those two situations?
Being able to evaluate the two totally different situations is not Rocket Science.
We are exploring various scenarios because we have no idea what happened.
If, as you conjecture, there was uncertainty as the SEAL Team entered the room, and bin Laden was shot, I have no problem with that. These things happen in war. It would not be right to ask our soldiers to take unneccessary risks.
However, my issue was with the “Kill Mission” order, if there ever was such an order. Such an order would preclude the capture of OBL, even if he was trying to surrender. Our SEALs would not be permitted to make recognition, evaluation and muscular movements that will have life and death consequences. You see him, you kill him. That is the mission. You don’t kill him because he is a threat. You kill him because that is the mission. That is a very different thing.
And saying to the press that we had a Kill Mission ordered is the worst mistake of all. It breaks the First Rule of the Fight Club.
Regarding the Dachau Massacre, clearly executing the Nazi guards was not a matter of military policy. Surely there was no Kill Mission order directing the soldiers to kill all of the guards. In fact, when some did start to kill the guards, they were stopped. So even in that Hell-on-Earth scenario, we did not, as a matter of policy, resort to the sort of thing we did last Sunday.
I am so !!!
“We” paid for them to do a job and they got it done. And I'll add ...all those who helped and assisted....from those who designed the copters and made them, to those in the CIA, and yes to those who did the water-boarding which gave us information that found Osama. Every one had their time and place ,and they all succeeded in preventing this brute from ever doing another hit....no doubt “others” will not be sleeping well with the additional information our guys have from the compound. I love it! Great job by all!
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