Can We Prevent a Second Civil War?

JPFO ^ | 2011 | Kirby Ferris

[Nowhere Man]

No matter where you might stand on marijuana, I think everyone can agree there is something seriously wrong when a man in (forget the state) is facing more prison time for sharing a joint with a teenager than he would be looking at had he forcibly raped that same teenager. State legislatures are even worse than congress when it comes to special interests and cause celebres.

Hell in Texas, it's often jokingly said that you'll spend more time in jail for leaving a dog in a hot car than a child, and it's not far from the truth.

I know what you mean, it seems like sometimes our court system gets things wrong. I'm really not for legalizing pot, but I don't think anyone should have his life ruined for a few ounces of weed either. We do need to set priorities in our justice system too.

[Nowhere Man]

It is amazing how fast some Freepers forget that everyone of us lives in a semi autonomous functional country(state) and the we’d hardly notice if FedGov™ disappeared. Lincoln did a hell of a job destroying the republic.

If FedGov™ collapses then the state will be the governing body. Yes there will still be socialists and conservatives but no anarchy. Your comment sound stupid, naive. Stop listening to anarchists like Melas who preach anarchy and chaos. Those types are FOS.

Well, some say that our Republic "jumped the shark" with Lincoln. I think he did a lot of damage to it during the Civil War but I don't know if it was a shark jump or not. Some say it happened earlier with President Washington going after the Whiskey Rebels here in Southwest PA. Myself, I think we jumped the shark in increments with Lincoln giving us a big shove, then Woodrow Wilson with the direct election of Senators and the income tax along with the Federal Reserve. Two other jumps were the FDR federal programs and LBJ's "Great Society."

I think where Melas is coming from and I'm not sure if I'm on target all the time is that if there is a Civil War II, it could be a bloody mess and things might not go the way we like. However, sometimes I do see things reaching a breaking point so it still can be forced on us.

[Nowhere Man]

Or have the “Red” states secede. I know it's been tried before, unsuccessfully, but maybe the second time’s the charm? Interesting that after 150 years, the “battle lines” are still pretty much the same.

Well, we could always go for best of three. B-) We won one(American Revolution), lost one (Civil War) so maybe we need a tie breaker. B-)

[cashless]

All my best to you.

[sbark]

hmmm.......and yet they fought against Joe McCarthy’s hunt for “reds” inside the govt tooth and nail...

I’d say it was true patriotic USA loving folks that said “better dead than red”...it wasnt dem’cats

[MSF BU]

It took four postings to come up with this; agreed. The fiscal problems are what is going to pit one group against another. Wait until we have to make a choice between funding social security pensions and funding the Department of Education. Wait until we see COLA’s capped at 2%(?) while we the Department of Energy remains fully funded and the myriad of pure waste (EEOC, NEA, Peace Corps, etc.) are level funded or take only minor cuts.

[ChildOfThe60s]

Hah, you read what you expected to see.

I said “Better RED than dead.” Which members of the left did say. The converse of what patriots said.

[MSF BU]

Go county by county and it gets much more interesting. Sadly, the divide rests largely (though not wholly) along ethnic & urban/rural lines. The parasite class in this country is growing enormously and it is endangering legitimate claims (military funding, judicial funding, debt interest, worker pensions) on the budget.

[redpoll]

>>>Or have the “Red” states secede. I know it’s been tried before, unsuccessfully, but maybe the second time’s the charm? Interesting that after 150 years, the “battle lines” are still pretty much the same.<<<

How’s this for a scenario?

The states joined the union as part of a representative republic. What happens if there’s in-your-face proof that the representative republic no longer exists? Couldn’t the argument be made by the individual states that the union has been dissolved - not by the state seceeding, but by the federal government seceeding from the union?

The states who agreed could then meet to reform the United States as a republic with limited government, and let the other states just hang.

Stranger things have happened.

[iowamark]

I am aware that long after the war was over, some revisionist secessionists tried to claim that tariffs were a reason for the war and that Klan mythology so claims to this day.

However, they did not do so before or during the Civil War. If you read the secession resolutions, they were quite frank that slavery was the only reason.

Note that John C. Calhoun died in 1850, ten years before secession happened.

The tariff had not been raised since 1842 and had been lowered substantially in 1846 and 1857. Secession and the Confederate government happened after Lincoln had been elected in 1860 but while Democrat James Buchanan was President. Even after the 1860 election, Democrats still controlled Congress and every member of the Supreme Court was a Democrat. Hardly the Republican dictatorship of neo-Confederate myth.

The slavemasters were not at all about limited government or states rights. Quite the opposite. Human Slavery required the most brutal government to enforce it and the Confederates opposed states’ rights to prohibit slavery.

You claim that Lincoln and Congress approved the “Crittenden Compromise” amendments to write slavery into the Constitution. That is incorrect. Congress never approved any of the amendments. The President has no role in amending the Constitution, but President-elect Lincoln never approved of the amendments.

[bopdowah]

Hope it doesn’t come to that, but the lessons of history are not very encouraging.

[Nat Turner]

First question: why would you want to?

War is preferable to slavery; and death to bondage... Cry Havoc!

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Your post is exactly what I thought when I read the title of this thread....why would we want to prevent it? There are far worse things.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

So far, I’ve yet to see a decent explanation of who would be the targets in this civil war that some claim that they want.

I'm all for standing a watch if/when it starts but for the most part the people who will be in my sights will be those who come to my castle looking to take my stuff or do harm to me and mine.

[khnyny]

Money - it’s always about the money.

That and a government and a government contractor apparatus that is out of control. The employees of both seriously need to be examined. Imho, it’s a gravy train that has attracted the basest individuals of our society - not a good thing to give these people power.

[lrmac]

I mentioned this possibility to my husband and he brought up an interesting point that CWII would never happen because there are no states that are self-sufficient enough to make it without government money, and then he argued that they would have nothing to do for people on social security....my response was “You don’t like it, leave.” Anyone else have a more intelligent response I can throw at him?:)