Posted on 03/09/2011 12:58:43 PM PST by JohnRLott
Should permitted faculty and students have the right to carry a concealed handgun on college campuses? Right now once someone qualifies for a permit they can carry a concealed handgun with them virtually anywhere in a state except for a few designated gun-free zones. Prominent among those "protected" areas are universities and schools. Yet, twelve states, including two large ones, Texas and Florida, are currentlly engaged in the debate over whether to end these bans.
Florida and Idaho have legislative hearings scheduled for Wednesday. The Idaho House should be voting on the bill by the end of the week. Legislative committees in Arizona and Oklahoma have already passed bills. Texas is planning votes during the week of March 21st.
But are these changes dangerous? Would faculty and students pose a danger to others? Wouldn't police accidentally shoot permit holders who are trying to stop an attacker? . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
“Hell no.”
Nice, short, concise.
Would you like to expand on that or are you done?
Would be happy to. College is a pressure cooker the likes of which youth have not truly experienced, ever. High school surely does not provide this. Or if it does, college may just be the place where it all comes to a head. Moreover, it is costly. When you bring these factors into play, plus coed dorms, coed rooms now, drinking, drugs, etc., as well as unknowns that manifest on an individual basis, the outward expression in combination with guns could be very bad.
Now if guns are allowed only for certain “qualified” people such as RAs, I could support that. Somehow, I just do not trust the bulk of our youth these days to carry in such environments.
Well, in that case, the issue becomes a bit more complicated.
When I went to college, there were no restrictions. That I know of. No mass killings or anything like that.
High school either. Carried my rifle and shotgun on my truck to hunt after school or skeet shoot. No mass murders there.
There’s a whole lot of things that can go wrong. Like criminals entering a “gun free zone” and shooting people.
The second amendment is not about who’s “qualified”. If we look at it like that the very soon no one will be qualified.
Who’s gonna decide who’s qualified? You? Me? Obama? Deomcrats? Judges? Cops? BATF? The local Little League?
Your qualifier of “could be very bad” is interesting. I know that Colombine, VT, etc. were very bad. What did they have in common?
Right-on!!
I do not know what Columbine or the others had in common. I simply do not have a good feeling about college students carrying. The constant stress that students deal with serve as the catalyst to more than likely use the gun for some silly and senseless reason. The more guns there are, the more likelihood one will be fired for some stupid reason. Oh, now don’t cut this last sentence out of context for saying I am for gun control, because I am all for the 2nd amendment. Just not at universities.
A similar question was posed here not too long ago about allowing carry on military bases. I opposed that for similar reasons. Just too much stress which can push someone a bit too far. Yes, I would trust them more on the battlefield than in a public setting where possibly drugs, women, etc., would be in the mix. The focus is different in combat or areas of conflict.
I believe, hell, I know from my own experience years ago, in the military AND college that there is a certain small segment of people that would, yet should not be allowed to carry.
Campus carry is legal in Utah. You (currently) need a carry permit, which means you have to be 21, pass FBI and UCBI background w/fingerprints and passport photo, and your rap sheet is run on you daily at BCI.
No incidents so far, other than a couple of campus cops getting their pensions threatened for trying to subvert the intention of the law which allows campus carry. Vermont carry (HB129) is currently being considered, but some libtards tacked an amendment on it saying you have to announce you are carrying a gun if you run into a cop. It’ll be voted down if it carries that provision. If it doesn’t pass this session, it likely will next session.
Another provision passed already is that you have to have a permit in your home state to obtain a Utah permit. This is because Nevada reversed reciprocity on our permits, most likely because they were losing the inane amount they charge for one to their enlightened neighbors. There’s logic in there somewhere.
Just for the sake of debate, I will continue. The checks used in Utah go a long way to help filter the undesirables. So I am happy about that.
The big problem I have is the gun is too readily available to a now emotional person stressed by a dickhead prof, pissed off lover, done been disrespected, drunken brawl, etc., things that NEVER happen in college. There is little time to cool off before the emotional person can obtain a gun.
One thing is clear, there is no way to stop persons intending to do harm. I don’t care if the gunman walks into a crowd of carriers, a carrier will most likely be killed by the gunman before the gunman is killed. This is the atypical situation, whereas the stressed and emotional student is far more likely and frequent occurrence.
Ok, so now you have students lawfully allowed to possess weapons on campus. They live on campus. How does the owner secure the weapon? Others know about the gun and where it is kept. It is in that room right over there. Undoubtedly, it is public information in nearby circles.
So this emotional person is either the carrier or knows where to go look for the gun. And it is right there, in my holster, a block away or just down the hall, rather than being perhaps miles away. How do you prevent this scenario?
Hopefully the 21 yr olds will be a tad more trustworthy than those who carry with no respect for the law - who were (and are) there all along. Also, the vast majority of U students live off campus. And, this ain’t Massachusetts.
I hope you are right, and I hope the Utah model works. And I am all for OPEN carry. Just not sure about the “animal house” environment.
Under constitutional or open carry where any legal resident can carry concealed there is the permanent threat that if you do something irrational or illegal the person beside, behind or across the room from you will kill you.
That is the constraint upon people who choose to carry.
For starters, they were all gun-free zones.
I simply do not have a good feeling about college students carrying.
You have a "feeling"? That's the only thing gun-grabbers use as their basis of argument to deny this pre-existing right to those that would choose to exercise it. You obviously aren't "all for the 2nd amendment" if you're willing to interject "feelings" to deny that right to others.
Just too much stress which can push someone a bit too far.
Stress is a part of life in general, and is not relegated solely to students in college or those in the military. Down with thee, strawman. There are millions of people that currently legally CC. What part of entering the sacred domain of a university turns the switch on those folks into crazed killers? These people manage to be among the most law-abiding group in all of society, but you believe taking down the gun-free-zone sign somehow changes everything about them? Completely illogical.
Really?
Why?
“For starters, they were all gun-free zones.”
Big deal. As I previously stated, it is highly unlikely that those who are intent on killing, and are then suicidal, cannot be stopped before killing at least one person. All the gun-free zones and carry permits cannot stop them in time.
“You have a “feeling”? That’s the only thing gun-grabbers use as their basis of argument to deny this pre-existing right to those that would choose to exercise it.”
Perhaps the extreme gun-grabbers, yes. But I believe there is some logical reasoning involved when making these decisions. Gun-grabbers don’t run everything.
“You obviously aren’t “all for the 2nd amendment” if you’re willing to interject “feelings” to deny that right to others.”
A bogus statement. My feelings are derived based on analysis that I believe to be reasonable. As I said before, in a university setting, and it does not need to be gun-free zone. Certain people, beyond the campus police, can be designated to have guns, but not everyone.
“Stress is a part of life in general, and is not relegated solely to students in college or those in the military. Down with thee, strawman.”
Maybe so. But having been in the military, and witnessed the caliber of recruits and the “tear down-build up” mentality, humilation, hard training, etc., by drill sargeants, officers, even lower ranking privates, etc., to allow recruits to carry weapons, or have one in the barracks would simply be stupid. There’s no other way to put it.
“There are millions of people that currently legally CC.”
True, but I bet they are older, and hence, more mature than college students.
“What part of entering the sacred domain of a university turns the switch on those folks into crazed killers?”
I stated this in previous posts.
“These people manage to be among the most law-abiding group in all of society, but you believe taking down the gun-free-zone sign somehow changes everything about them? Completely illogical.”
I agree that the CC’s are the best, but the college environment should be metered carefully. “Gun-free”? See above and previous posts.
Technically, reason and logic dictate that there is no such thing as public property, as then the question becomes who is and is not “the public”. The logical conclusion to the problem would be to push for private colleges and schools. Unfortunatly, logic and reason are growing more and more scarce among the general population and I don’t see that happening.
Essentially, so long as people are convinced there is such a thing as public property, the question regarding gun ownership on on public schools is all but unanswerable, as once again, who is and is not “the public”? Do the taxpayers who pay for the school have a say or not, do the people who attend the school have a say or not, do the people who run the school have a say or not, do the people who live in the same neighborhood have a say or not, etc etc etc.
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