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To: Impy; BenKenobi; fieldmarshaldj; GOPsterinMA; BillyBoy; sickoflibs; Hoodat; Gondring; ...
Interesting thread. I wrote a script about Harding in film school a couple years back (went with the most outlandish of the Harding death theories, the one that assumes his wife poisoned him for having an affair and ilegitimate child).

Harding & Grant do really get a raw deal from historians who rank them dead last. Harding wasn't THAT bad, but given that he died before he could accomplish anything, and foolishly appointed a bunch of crooks to his cabinet, I can't rank him very high, regardless of whether had the right positions on the issues (and even if he did, I disagree with his pardon of that lunatic Eugene Debs). And Grant can be summarized simply: Brilliant general, lousy President. The funny thing is they had a DU thread a couple years back, where the DUmmies were ranking the "best" of the Gilded Age presidents (1866-1900), where basically every President from that era was center-right and there were no "progressives" to pick from. They went with Grant as their fav.

I have to disagree with Fieldmarshaldj, I DO think Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan deserve to near the bottom. Pierce was obviously not in the right mental state to be President after his only child was crushed to death in front of him, and sent most of his administration drinking himself to death. Buchanan was a worthless coward who watched the country fall apart, sat on his hands, and left to Lincoln to death with. His position that he had "no authority" to interfer with secession might have had more credibility if he hadn't used the U.S. military to stop Utah from seceding during the Mormon war three years earlier.

One thing we do have to remember is how much politics has changed in a century. Sadly, I think the political spectrum of this country is much more left-wing than it was a century ago. For example, Ike was the last president to really get control of our borders and enforce immigration laws with Mexico. At the time it wasn't controversial at all, but today he'd be labeled a right-wing minuteman reactionary and be subjected to a firestorm of attacks for being insensitive to "poor migrants". Teddy Roosevelt was "progressive" in his day, but today liberals wouldn't like his passion support for hunting or his staunch opposition to multiculturalism and belief that everyone should learn English or leave. And even the liberal icon FDR wouldn't have ever dreamed of promoting "civil unions", let alone gay marriage, which would have certainly resulted in impeachment and talks that the President had lost his mind. I think Calvin Coolidge's son, John Coolidge, once remarked in the 70s that "my father couldn't get elected today" and said that Silent Cal would be rolling in his grave if he saw how liberal America had become. And that's 30 years ago!

In any case, I'll just rank the 20th century presidents from best to worse. Note this is for overall effectiveness and accomplishments -- I'm not rating them by how much they agreed with me or how conservative they were.

Ping me if you want any details on my choices. Too much to explain here, I'd have to discuss them individually.

Ronald Reagan
Calvin Coolidge (most underrated President of all time)
Theodore Roosevelt
William Howard Taft
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Richard Nixon
Harry S. Truman
George H.W. Bush
Gerald Ford
Herbert Hoover
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Warren G Harding
Bill Clinton
John F Kennedy (most OVERRATED President of all time!)
Woodrow Wilson
Lyndon B. Johnson
Jimmy Carter

44 posted on 03/05/2011 7:35:28 PM PST by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy; Impy

Just a quick comment. I wasn’t saying Pierce or Buchanan deserved to be ranked as “good”, only that both were in a terrific bind given the political realities of the time, and almost anyone serving during that period would’ve similarly found themselves in a no-win situation. That has to be taken into account when assessing either of them.

As an aside, I was looking up something on Lincoln’s 1st VP, Hannibal Hamlin. Hamlin had been an abolitionist during his prior years in Congress and unlike a decent chunk of the new Republicans, hadn’t previously been a Whig but a Democrat, and he was a stalwart Pierce backer in 1852. It is astonishing to consider the diametrically opposed factions within both the Democrats and Whigs up to that point that had to keep their members “happy.” It would be the equivalent today of keeping San Francisco Anti-War Moonbats and Wisconsin Union Thugs in the same party with Jesse Helms and Sarah Palin Conservatives. The Whigs collapsed by 1855 because they couldn’t hold the Cottons and Conscience types together, and for that matter, the Democrats themselves collapsed as well in 1860 trying to hold together two similar factions. Not even Lincoln’s rival Stephen Douglas was considered acceptable to the Southerners.


45 posted on 03/05/2011 8:01:51 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Amber Lamps !"~~)
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To: BillyBoy

I don’t see ‘W’ in your list. Also, I would have placed Gerald Ford much higher - certainly above Nixon and H.W. Bush.


50 posted on 03/05/2011 8:29:34 PM PST by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
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To: BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; LS

Well I’d put Harding much higher certainly above FDR. And Dirty Harry The White Obama much lower (I’m sure you guys remember how I feel about him).

My primary criterion is harm done to constitutional government. I can’t even rank Carter and Johnson worse than FDR in that regard.

Decent Conservatives

Reagan (KO of Soviets puts him ahead of Cal)
Coolidge
Taft
Harding

Middling

Ike
TR
Bush Sr.
Ford

Awful Crumbums

JFK
Hoover
Clinton
Wilson (The Grandaddy of Socialism)
Truman (White Obama)
Jimmuh
LBJ
FDR

TR is an interesting case, he certainly made some good reforms but may have gone too far in some cases. His 1916 platform was disgusting. Some freepers quote him, others name him as high RINO scum. McKinley (didn’t see much of the 20th Century) is also an interesting case. He’s been blasted around here by some for occupying the Phillipines.

I find it much harder to rate 19th Century Presidents as it’s harder to relate to the issues of the day and none of them were socialist scumbags.

I suppose there’s not much Buchanan (or Pierce) could have done to forestall civil war. But at a time in history that called for leadership he offered less than nothing.

I wish that the South had seceded when Southerner Andrew Jackson was President, seems to me he was crazy, he might have scared them back into the union.

I’m not sure if Andrew Johnson deserved to be removed from office but I wish he was (or that Hamlin was renominated in 1864). The failure and abandonment of reconstruction was the worst thing to happen politically in the 19th century. Perhaps “Radical Republican” President Ben Wade could have succeeded.


65 posted on 03/08/2011 6:00:18 PM PST by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: BillyBoy
I would put LBJ below Carter.

Funny thing is and I know this is heresy Clinton should move up. Much better growing economy and no wars (I know the Balkans). Could be he got the benefit of Regan/Bush and then left the cr@p to Bush. But you get lucky sometimes.

67 posted on 03/08/2011 6:12:20 PM PST by nomorelurker
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