Posted on 01/30/2011 4:01:07 PM PST by Libloather
State lawmakers want Obama’s birth records
By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
Sat, 01/29/2011 - 00:34
PHOENIX — More than three dozen Republican legislators want a plan to require Barack Obama to produce an original birth certificate for Arizona officials if he intends to seek re-election.
HB 2544 would forbid the secretary of state from putting a presidential candidate’s name on the ballot unless certain documents are first provided. These include a sworn statements outlining where the candidate has lived for the last 14 years, that the candidate does not hold dual citizenship and that the person’s allegiance “is solely to the United States of America.”
But what worries Ken Bennett, the current secretary of state, is that he also would have to be furnished “an original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance.” Without that, he said, the measure would bar him from including the candidate’s name on the ballot.
“I don’t know that’s on MY birth certificate, for goodness sakes” said Bennett, who was born in Tucson.
Potentially more problematic, he said, is that each state has its own system of recording births. And Bennett, who is a Republican like all of the measure’s 41 sponsors, is not sure that its even possible to get an “original” birth certificate.
For example, he said, people seeking birth certificates from many states, often for passports or other documentation, are instead furnished with a “certificate of live birth.” That usually takes the form of a state official certifying, under oath, that there are documents on file proving a specific person was born on a specified date.
That’s not all, Bennett said, pointing to the requirement for the birth certificate to have the names of the attending physician and the signatures of witnesses.
“If you were delivered at home with a midwife, does that mean you are no longer qualified to be the president of the United States?” he asked. “If there aren’t any signatures of witnesses in attendance, you’re no longer qualified?”
And what, exactly, is a “long form birth certificate,” he asked.
“Is that a standard term of art that means the same thing in all 50 states?” Bennett continued. “And is it even available in all 50 states?”
Officially speaking, the legislation crafted by Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, does not mention Obama. And Burges, who first sponsored a slightly different version of the measure last year, said it’s not necessarily about Obama, though she admitted she doubts he was born in Hawaii as he claims, or that he can show he is a U.S. citizen.
“With what’s happening throughout the world, we need to make sure that our candidates are certifiable,” she told Capitol Media Services when she introduced the first measure.
Burges managed to get the measure through the House last year. The bill died in the Senate. That requirement for the “long form original,” appears designed with Obama in mind.
Officials in Hawaii released a short-form version of the birth certificate when the issue first arose before the 2008 election. When that failed to satisfy critics, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the state’s health director, issued a statement saying he has “seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.”
Bennett seems satisfied. “I think he was born in Hawaii,” he said. “I personally believe he is a U.S. citizen.”
Others sponsors of the legislation, though, apparently have their doubts.
Rep. Carl Seel, R-Phoenix, told KPNX this week he believes Obama — and all presidential candidates — should provide proof of their citizenship. Asked specifically if he believes Obama is a citizen, Seel responded, “I have questions about that.”
Bennett, acknowledging all the controversy, said he is sympathetic to the goal. “I think we need a legitimate and verifiable process for candidates to demonstrate that they meet the qualifications,” he said.
“In the case of the president’s office … the best place is at the federal level so that each state is not doing its own, different thing,” Bennett continued. “But it seems unfortunately obvious that they’ve not sufficiently implemented such a process at the federal level or we wouldn’t be having these questions.”
He added, though, that no process might be enough “in the minds of some people.”
I’m crazy for yapping with you anyway. You’re like a arsonist who shows up when the house of the most popular family in town is on fire and burning down, and insists to all who bother to listen that it can’t be arson because the everyone loves the family.
Here, consider Puerto Rico's case:
The government of Puerto Rico is invalidating every birth certificate issued on the island before July 1, 2010, in an attempt to curb rampant fraud and identity theft that officials say has ruined lives, strained social service programs and compromised national security.For the Obama and who ever "registered" him in 1961 or whenever it was done, Hawaii was the place of choice.Each of Puerto Rico's 4 million residents and the estimated 1.2 million Puerto Rico-born Americans living in the 50 states will have to apply for new vital documents to legally prove that they exist and remain eligible for government benefits.
The U.S. State Department and Homeland Security Department estimate that an astonishing 40 percent of all U.S. passport fraud cases in recent years involved Puerto Rican birth certificates, though exact numbers are unknown.
"There are so many [Puerto Rican birth certificates] floating around… a lot fall into the hands of unscrupulous individuals," said State Department Bureau of Consular Affairs spokeswoman Rosemary Macray. "We've uncovered many cases of people posing as Puerto Ricans" in applying for U.S. passports.
For more read: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/puerto-rico-birth-certificate-crisis-invalidating-fix/story?id=10422841
I didn't say there isn't ANY fraud. Just that it isn't common in places like Hawaii.
It's actually quite rampant in some places. Like for example Hawaii,
It is rampant in some places, but Hawaii isn't one of them.
as Sun Yat Sen's case shows.
The fact that you can come up with only ONE case, which happened 50 years before Obama's birth, is pretty good evidence that BC fraud in Hawaii is rare.
Here, consider Puerto Rico's case:
That's very interesting, but in case you didn't know, Puerto Rico isn't Hawaii. Puerto Rico isn't 3,000 miles from the nearest landmass.
Using your “logic” there is nothing that say he wasn't adopted either. The point being we have a right to know.
....Butterdezillion's blog says a lot of things, most of which is nonsense......
Your opinion is duly noted and rejected.
....Unfortunately, she has no evidence to back up her claim, just a lot of speculation and innuendo...
I consider her to have evidence of some weight again your opinion is rejected.
.... Uh huh. And how, exactly, do you know that birth certificate numbering is always that precise? You're talking about a government bureaucracy here.....
So you agree HDOH screwed up numerous times, when you want it to but they are perfect when you want that too. Yeah that's the ticket.
....... But there's nothing to suggest it is amended....
Sure their is but it went right over your head.
......The lawsuits never got to the stage where it was necessary for him to submit evidence...
Now you are really getting over your head..
.... Okay. There is no such admission, anywhere in the public domain. That proves it doesn't exist....
ROFLMAO again over your head.
Let me explain 1+1=2
..... Okay. So do you have any evidence that there's significant amount of BC fraud in Hawaii? And no, a single fraud committed 100 years ago, before Hawaii was even a state, doesn't count....
That's part of what Hawaii is hiding..this case itself has probable cause that a crime has been committed, Abercrombie cant find the BC so where is it what happened to it? What's you excuse for that one?
.....You: Hawaii made it so easy to get a BC they may not have needed to resort to mid-wife fraud.
Me:...... Hawaii made it no easier than any other state at the time...
You:Yes they did,
Okay. Prove it.....
Read their laws and get back to me Im not going to take the time to hold your hand on this too.
...Duh no its not a major crossing point but it is a destination center.....Thank you for the admission,
Japanese?!!! Are you kidding?
Ichi Ban, you forget I've been there and Japan too. Try the tourism industry for a start.
...She likely didn't know either but in any case the age and pp and residency requirements were available in chart form,
Really. A chart form. You got any evidence such a chart ever existed?....
Sure idiot, just ask any Immigration Attorney or Immigration Officer. How do you think they teach the law? Gett off your duff and google it.
.....The idea that an educated bank manager wouldn't have even inquired as the possibilities of naturalization for her grandson is too ridiculous for words....Yeah this is a real brainy family, you'd think they would have taught their daughter about birth control or to keep her legs closed, being so educated as you say, then none of this mess would ever have happened. Being so educated they also could have flown her out of the country to Europe/Scandinavia for an abortion. Guess they didn't think of that?
She may have planned on going to Hawaii but delayed and not allowed to leave Kenya.
...So how would a forged birth certificate have helped?....
If the birth in foreign country was not planned she may have had to make a quick decision without getting real legal advice and Granny went with the forged registration..like Aloha Ronnie said it happened all the time.
She may have gone to Canada.
...Got any evidence of that?...
Got any evidence she didn't?
We really don't know because the State Department destroyed her passport records,
....Her passport records would not have provided any information on her travels....
Sorry to disappoint you,They would have shown when she obtained her first passport sorry you are to dense or deceptive to admit that. It is evidence of a cover-up. Why destroy and cover up somthing that as you state wouldn't provide andy information on her travel. The point being it would have shown she could have travelled but you know that and are being disengenous. Read the case.
TELL ME WHY OBAMA SHOULD NOT SHOW HIS LONG FORM BC
.... Because it is not necessary to establish his eligibility, and by not showing it, he encourages the birther movement, which ends up dividing and embarrassing the GOP...
You funny girl over 60% of the US question his eligibility, guess he wasn't so smart after all if he really does have a BC. Again, By the way why can't Gov.Abercrombie find it?
.....There is no evidence he was adopted. But even if he was, it wouldn't affect his eligibility.....
It would at least make him a liar (more than he is already)and it something we have a right to know. He denies muslim indoctrination and religion.
and school records as well as explain how and when he got his Social Security Card
....Also irrelevant to his eligibility....No it goes to fraud and his whole identity...so does his draft registration which would make him ineligible.
He needs to put up or step down.
...... He will do neither, and there's nothing either you or any birther can do about it...
OOOOH nice attitude, lets see we have a lying sack of crap of a President who has no ethics, is acting like a dictator, corrupt to the core, violating numerous laws, spending millions on vacations at time of depression, challenging judges, and you say there is nothing we can do about it. SO I take it you like this a$$hole Pres who let a man go to prison for the sole reason as you say he wants to divide the people who won't vote for him. I don't know who is stupider, you or him.
He is dividing the nation over a $12.00 issue.
..... No. He's only dividing his opposition. His base and the independent swing voters don't care. The only people who care about this issue are people who would never vote for him in the first place. Hence he can safely ignore you....
As he himself said the only people who don't want to disclose the truth are those with something to hide. There is no logical explanation for his hiding all his records other than they contain bad news for him,
...Sure there is. By hiding them, he encourages nutjobs like you to come up with wild conspiracy theories that divide and embarrass his opposition.....
Using your convoluted theory, will he ever disclose his records or do we wait until he is dead? Are those nutjobs running the states that are passing legislation to require proof of his eligibility? Not divided and embarrassed, united and pissed off. You are funny!
I'm not embarrassed by questioning authority, I am embarrassed that he was not vetted and we the people have every right to question his eligibility until it is proven one way or the other whether you like it or not and there is nothing you can do about it but continue to make a fool of yourself by siding with the little general.
Your refusal to demand the truth shows you don't want to know the truth or are afraid of the truth. What do you have to lose by having the truth out in the open for all to see? Don't you want the people to have confidence in their government? Suppose you are wrong and he is just another typical identify theft wet then what? Why should we have to rely on opinions instead of facts? You want to make birthers look stupid, demand the truth show us up! Oh yeah that's what Abercrombie thought he would do he drank the Kool-Aid, and is now drowning in it.
This what I find interesting. Neil Ambercrombie goes looking for the BC to “put this issue to rest” but can’t find it. In admitting that there no long form he states there is an “entry”. But does not tell us what the “entry”states, instead he says “this will be a problem for Obama in 2012.....”
I find that most telling....
This is what I find interesting. Neil Ambercrombie goes looking for the BC to “put this issue to rest” but can’t find it. In admitting that there no long form he states there is an “entry”. But does not tell us what the “entry”states, instead he says “this will be a problem for Obama in 2012.....”
I find that most telling....
if a couple of Republican senators were to suggest that obama be investigated, it does not mean that he would be investigated. They ‘know that the republican leadership would not allow it to proceed. All that would happen is that the media would label the senators as nutcase “birthers”
In the Senate though, there are some Republicans who just got reelected with better than 70% of the vote and they won’t have to stand for reelection for six years. For example, Senator John Thune of South Dakota didn’t even have a Democrat challenger for reelection.
let’s say the senator from North Dakota get a moment of bravery, he would be informed that of he does not withdraw his comments he will not get get any support form the RNC during his next election. Money speaks and it takes a lot of money to have a successful campaign. Of course this leads to a whole new issue, why is the Republican leadership so afraid of obama?
let’s say the senator from North Dakota get a moment of bravery, he would be informed that of he does not withdraw his comments he will not get get any support form the RNC during his next election. Money speaks and it takes a lot of money to have a successful campaign. Of course this leads to a whole new issue, why is the Republican leadership so afraid of obama?
You may find that interesting, but unfortunately, it isn't true. Abercrombie never said he couldn't find the long form. His predecessor, in fact, explictly said it was where it is supposed to be.
Abercrombie later said, according to his friend radio personality Mike Evans, that the document doesn’t exist and expressed concern that the controversy will be a major issue for Obama during his planned 2012 presidential re-election campaign.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=258637
Yes, and then Mike Evans later retracted and said he misspoke.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/
....Yes, and then Mike Evans later retracted and said he misspoke......
Yea so was he lying at first or now? Give it up, you can’t have it both ways. “misspoke” my butt.
At first. The guy's a media whore. He thought he could get some attention by baiting the birthers. Then he got blowback, so he relented. It's not complicated.
...At first....
Give me a fkn break you have no idea and are just guessing. Your bias is showing. (still) He more likely backed off because Abercrombie or his lawyer/goons told him to. Abercrombie needs to be asked by the media but he is ducking them.
Once again you deceive. In the first place Mike Evans did not take back his statement that there was no long form BC for Obama, he took back that he talked directly to Abercrombie and related that he talked to Abercrombie's office.
Now pray tell what BS are you attributing to Gov Lingle concerning the usurper's supposed BC? What "word" of hers are you taking ?
You haven't got an honest bone in your body, and no shame. I don't know what your agenda is but the truth isn't it.
Actually, you're wrong. He claims that he meant to say that the hospital denied having a long-form, and that he "misspoke" in saying that it was the governor:
Only this I can you tell you is 100 percent fact: that Neil never told me there was no birth certificate. I never talked to him.
I was on 34 radio stations that morning. That was the only station where I said, instead of saying ‘the hospital said there’s no birth certificate’ I misspoke and said Neil said that. I misspoke and I apologize for that. I apologize to Neil.
Of course, no hospital is going to have Obama's BC, since hospitals don't keep records for 50 years.
At any rate, I'm a little puzzled as to why you give so much credence to some two-bit media whore like Evans. Why does he command so much respect from you?
Now pray tell what BS are you attributing to Gov Lingle concerning the usurper's supposed BC? What "word" of hers are you taking ?
This:
"You know, during the campaign of 2008, I was actually in the mainland campaigning for Sen. McCain. This issue kept coming up so much in the campaign, and again I think it's one of those issues that is simply a distraction from the more critical issues that are facing the country. And so I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health."
You haven't got an honest bone in your body, and no shame.
No, that would be you. Amazing how birthers project their faults on to other people whenever their myths are busted.
Go back and read your own quotes they verify exactly what I said. Lingle saw nothing, whatever she said is heresay. Lingle could have just as well said she asked Curiosity to check Obama’s records and Curiosity said its in the HDOH. It proves Lingle knows nothing about the BC other than what was told her. And we know how reliable you are at relating facts-ZERO.
Evans mispoke and related things Abercrobie’s office said not what Abercrombie said. Thats the retraction, nothing more. Evans did not talk to the hospital, Abercrombies office did and according to Evans they even had a search warrant. More BS from you. How do you sleep at night?
LOL. And Mike Evans' statement isn't?
Lingle could have just as well said she asked Curiosity to check Obama’s records and Curiosity said its in the HDOH.
The difference is that I'm not in any position to check the records. Dr. Fukino is. I'm also not a public official. Dr. Fukino is. Now I suppose it's theoretically possible that she lied to the governor, but it's not very likely. What could she possibly gain from such a lie? And surely it would be exposed rather quickly. Large bureaucracies like the HDOH are notoriously bad at keeping secrets.
It proves Lingle knows nothing about the BC other than what was told her.
Yes, but she has good reason to trust the person who told it to her. On the other hand, I have absolutely no reason to trust some two-bit media whore like Evans.
Evans mispoke and related things Abercrobie’s office said not what Abercrombie said. Thats the retraction, nothing more.
Can you read? That is NOT what the retraction is about. Here's what Evans said:
I was on 34 radio stations that morning. That was the only station where I said, instead of saying ‘the hospital said there’s no birth certificate’ I misspoke and said Neil said that.
Evans did not talk to the hospital,
I don't think Evans talked to anyone.
Abercrombies office did and according to Evans they even had a search warrant.
And why should I believe what some two-bit media whore says?
BTW, if there really were a search warrant, there would be a public record of it. Can you find it?
How do you sleep at night?
Because I'm standing up for the truth, and I very much enjoy the busting of myths.
The sad thing is you are so deluded that you really do think you're on the side of truth, even though you're spreading lies and nonsense.
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