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Exclusive: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman's Grudge Against Giffords
Mother Jones ^ | 10 January, 2011 | Nick Bauman

Posted on 01/10/2011 8:35:17 AM PST by SE Mom

click here to read article


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To: pgkdan

I wish the wacky Palin Poster wasn’t so expensive! I’d love to have one. It’s hilarious!


101 posted on 01/10/2011 11:33:13 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Wuli
“There’s about as much rational basis to knowing what made this guy tick and what caused him to act (and thereby assign “blame”) as there is a stable personality to the guy in the first place. Which is exactly nil.”

Exactly. Too many people are trying to “understand” this guy.
He was freaking nuts is about all that is needed to be understood.

And it's sick that some are trying to use to political advantage.

102 posted on 01/10/2011 11:38:30 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Vote like Obama is on the ballot)
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To: Wolfstar

“That’s it! Art Bell and George Noory are to blame. That lucid dreaming stuff comes straight off Coast-to-Coast. Hahahaha...yeppers, talk radio is to blame. The media just pinned it on the wrong show. Snicker... “

Actually, that’s incorrect! Bell may have talked about it, but,,, it’s straight out of Carlos Castenada’s 1968 book, “The Teachings of Don Juan.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Teachings_of_Don_Juan


103 posted on 01/10/2011 11:39:12 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

We demand to see his T-shirt collection!

You know if he had a Sarah Palin shirt or even one with “Alaska” on it, we’d be seeing that all over the news.


104 posted on 01/10/2011 11:40:04 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: SE Mom
This is the most insight we've seen so far on this guy.

The left has CERTAINLY jumped the shark.

105 posted on 01/10/2011 11:40:40 AM PST by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: livius; SteamShovel
...it was the liberal loonies who decided that the mentally ill were just expressing their dissatisfaction with capitalism...I'm not kidding, that's what Lang taught. He was all the rage back in the 60s and 70s.

True, and it led to countless individual and, occasionally as in Arizona, mass tragedies. Estimates are that about 1% of babies born each year will develop schizophrenia. In the United States there are about 4 million babies born each year. Approximately 40,000 will become schizophrenic. Most of them do not harm anyone except themselves. About half smoke pot and become addicted to other drugs, including alcohol. Also about half wind up committing suicide. Large numbers are homeless. Some, perhaps those with less severe cases, do get treatment and are able to lead reasonably normal lives as long as they take their meds. The greatest tragedy of all is that some wind up like Loughner, severely delusional and trying to commit suicide by cop while taking as many innocent people with them as possible.

One serious misconception about schizophrenics is that they are incapable of doing seemingly normal things like make plans, and that planning indicates they know right from wrong. Schizophrenics can make very elaborate plans, but they are motivated by genuine delusions, and their plans, while seemingly coherent, really are nonsensical.

106 posted on 01/10/2011 11:53:49 AM PST by Wolfstar ("If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his friend." Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Polybius
“At some point, “the parents” are no longer an issue. “

At some point, parents (even seemingly good ones) seem to have no influence over these types.

107 posted on 01/10/2011 11:57:00 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Vote like Obama is on the ballot)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Lucid dreaming is a big topic on Coast-to-Coast. :)


108 posted on 01/10/2011 11:58:30 AM PST by Wolfstar ("If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his friend." Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Uncle Ike; hennie pennie; bgill; MichiganConservative

See my post # 103


109 posted on 01/10/2011 11:58:43 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: hennie pennie
How did this extremely ill individual EVER pass an FBI background check which enabled him to purchase the Glock?

No prior arrests or convictions or outstanding warrants. Never committed to a mental institution or judged mentally deficient or incompetent to handle his own affairs. Never failed a drug test that was reported to legal authorities. Never dishonorably discharged from the military. A citizen and in the country legally. Not a fugitive. Never tried to renounce US citizenship. No restraining orders or record of family abuse. Result = he passed the test.

If there was a flaw in the system, it's that rejection by the military, possibly for a failed drug test, apparently doesn't get reported to the FBI system. Beyond that, though, they aren't going to keep track of everybody who's ever acted crazy. There are too many of them, deciding who's crazy can be subjective, and there are a lot of lawyers and civil libertarians who'd mount challenges to such reporting, judging, record-keeping, and denial of rights.

Years ago, though, when Arizona's population was a lot smaller and people knew each other, you could suppose that it would get around that that crazy kid from the college tried to buy a gun and perhaps he wouldn't have been sold one. In a much larger and more impersonal world it's hard to turn away a customer like that. Chances are the vendor doesn't know anything about the prospective customer, and there are always other stores.

110 posted on 01/10/2011 11:59:14 AM PST by x
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To: Wolfstar

“Lucid dreaming is a big topic on Coast-to-Coast. “

I’m sure it is,,, but the first I ever came across it was in Castenada’s book in 1968. It was a book all of us freaks read back then. Almost every college student had a copy.


111 posted on 01/10/2011 12:02:04 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: SE Mom
This is an awesome read - real journalism

Now the crime makes “sense” in terms of how and why Gabrielle Giffords crossed paths with and attracted the obsessive attention of violent schizophrenic

112 posted on 01/10/2011 12:02:46 PM PST by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: hennie pennie

If he was making threats and people knew and no one reported it, that would also be another failure in the system. With a conviction or a restraining order on his record, he wouldn’t have been able to get the gun.


113 posted on 01/10/2011 12:05:07 PM PST by x
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To: Gabrial

He is getting what he wanted. Global attention.


Did Paul Harvey have a good way to handle this?


114 posted on 01/10/2011 12:07:44 PM PST by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: SE Mom
His parents were existing the never ending dark hell on earth of living with a mentally ill child, for whom few resources are available or affordable for the middle class

Think I'm kidding? Check out the process of involuntary psychiatric commitment of a teenager who really hasn't (yet) harmed anyone, and the out-of-pocket costs of doing do

As with an alcoholic, out patient diagnosis treatment and management of mental illness requires that the patient accept his illness and want to get well-

From what I am reading it is doubtful that Jared accepted he was sick, but lived the obsession that the rest of society was screwed up

The onset in his teenage years, voices in his head, obsessive habits, suggest schizophrenia

the pot smoking as a HS freshman etc may have induced additional psychosis, yes it is a side effect of what many believe to be a harmless pastime

115 posted on 01/10/2011 12:10:32 PM PST by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: HereInTheHeartland
blaming the parents for Jared's psychosis and the way he acted, is liking blaming kids for their parents’ alzheimers

The process of involuntary commitment of a teenager starts with the teen being assessed as a danger to himself or others. If has hasn't harmed anyone or threatened suicide good luck finding a DR who will commit him and good luck in finding a bed in a psych inpatient ward

As sad as it is, his parents may feel some relief that Jared will finally get the help he needs and be locked up to protect himself and others

Have you even any idea how many millions (I would guess) of teenage kids express violent fantasies that come to naught?
These behaviors in fact make rich men of many so-called rap stars

116 posted on 01/10/2011 12:16:58 PM PST by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: ICCtheWay

ICCtheWay wrote:

The shooter (as I choose to call him)

Don’t you mean “SUSPECTED” shooter?

/tweak
//just messing with you, cause I thought it funny how none of the press is saying he’s a “suspect”, like the Fort Hood “suspected” shooter...
///liberal press Apple Hoisters....


117 posted on 01/10/2011 12:22:52 PM PST by Ro_Thunder (Nov 2nd, 2010 - The adults get home, and are back in charge)
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To: x

I’ve read quite a few times here at FR that the sheriff had received multiple reports of him having made death threats. But no mention of anything happening to him as a consequence.


118 posted on 01/10/2011 12:27:24 PM PST by hennie pennie
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To: x

I think that the store where he purchased the Glock is called Sportsman’s Authority, and the manager was quoted as saying that the FBI check came back immediately, that he was cleared to buy the gun in no time at all.


119 posted on 01/10/2011 12:31:54 PM PST by hennie pennie
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To: Ro_Thunder

I get it... I noticed FoxNews - at least this morning was not using ‘suspect’ - they even said killer one time I think.

Yeah - ‘Suspect’ - Yeah Right... the guy who whacked the shooter with a chair - smacked the wrong guy I suppose... and the two other men who slammed him from behind knocking the shooter down and other guy who picked up the gun and the woman who wrestled the extra ammo magazine from the shooter’s hand when he pulled it out of his pocket... GUESS they all got the wrong guy... imagine that... from three feet away they jumped on the wrong guy /s WOW!


120 posted on 01/10/2011 12:32:07 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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