Posted on 12/16/2010 4:52:16 AM PST by Kaslin
US enterpreneurs went to Eastern Europe to rescue their economies. They were put in charge of organizations full to the brim with advanced degrees, but unable to create, manufacture, and sell a product. In many cases the answer was to fire the high ranking people with useless degrees, and retain the less educated and more practical people to perform manufacture, marketing, and distribution.
Why would a bronze age greek propaganda story be relevant now? Why would someone major in it? Propaganda has a finite shelflife.
The distortion and perversion that is taking place doesn't invalidate the legitimacy of stop signs at intersection; in fact, when used properly, they're a pretty good idea, and so it is with the liberal arts which, when properly taught play a critical role in transmitting and preserving western civilization. I suspect this is precisely why they have become deliberately infested and corrupted by those who would choose to destroy it.
Good art is always relevant.
I did two years at a school that proclaimed itself to be a “liberal arts school”, between my stints at community college and grad school. I was consciously taking two years to do what I hoped would further my broad education that I acquired being homeschooled.
I did not. Most places that claim to offer “liberal arts” miss the entire point. They serve up a listing of courses that look like liberal arts but teach them exactly the same as anything else. If the point is to learn “how to think”, they are missing the mark. I didn’t realize what they were trying to do until I started researching classical education in preparation for homeschooling my toddler.
Now, that said, I think classical/liberal arts proponents are usually missing a necessary emphasis on science, math, and technologies. As a software engineer married to a mechanical engineer, we want our kids to be well rounded thinkers, yes, but we are going to put a lot of weight on calculus and physics and encourage them to get a practical degree like engineering or medicine.
"Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it!" Georges Santayan
Plus, it is always nice to be able to communicate with the folks at Starbucks and McDonald's at their level.
That’s “Santayana”, not “Santayan”.
Is it possible that they have never been taught how to use books? You can not know what you have not been taught
Sounds like you have a good combo for homeschooling.
My wife and I have, respectively, an English degree w/ tech writing experience, and an electrical engineer.
And we’re working on our “5 foot shelf” of Harvard Classics, though the chillins are too young for them yet.
Without those skills, my career as an engineer was severely limited.
...
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
You are so right. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trade schools and college is not for everyone
One of our hobbies is fiction writing, we’re voracious readers and we have family resources like a veterinarian aunt, a history phd-to-be-aunt, a grandmother with enough knowledge about Shakespeare for a master’s degree even if she doesn’t have the paper, the other grandmother with actual degrees in biology and other fields... yeah.
Liberal arts education should be at home, so that when they hit college they don’t need to waste time and money or risk indoctrination.
I think you missed the point. The author is not so much advocating the getting of a BA in Liberal arts. He is saying that without the study of "the arts" all one's knowledge in technology, etc is missing out on essential skills and attitudes one learns from the "arts" and that perhaps a well rounded person should have both the "arts" and the "skills". So get your degree in something that gives you a good career..... but don't forget the importance of complimenting that with "the arts".
BINGO! As one of the few working grad students in my program, I am constantly discussing the virtues of OJT and the value of the work over the degree. Thank you for opining on this, as we both share similar experiences.
I’m the only engineer on my team who knows how to program, uses Linux, and knows what a pivot table is. I am the go-to guy for everything documentation related, and I understand every number I put out there.
So I’m not the only one here.
How on earth did you survive?
BA here here. Concentration on the British Empire and history of science.
Would have a major in History, minor in Physics, but they won’t let you do it.
“Hard science and math degrees only mean you can manipulate numbers.”
Utterly wrong. Engineering is about manipulating numbers - to solve problems. Hard science is about manipulating numbers - to answer questions about reality. When you denigrate those as “only ... manipulating numbers,” that shows you don’t really understand engineering, and further that what you think is engineering isn’t.
PS I’m talking real science and engineering, not the politicized garbage we see all the time in the media such as global warming etc.
A waste.
No reason you can’t do both. Powerpoint skills can be learned over a day seminar. It’s not going to take you 4 years.
In my defense, I never studied literature. I'm a writer at my core. But yes, knowing how to manipulate data in Excel, write powerful proposals in Word, create riveting presentations in PowerPoint, and programming basic DBs in Access are critical in most industries. However, employers have gone to taking the word of the interviewee without even validating their claims.
For instance, we hired a woman with an MBA. She had all the pedigree, summa cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa, etc. She claimed a WPM (word per minute) of 100 on her application. I've personally been clocked (by a computer program) at 81 WPM, and I'm one of those people who hear "Damn, burning up that keyboard, eh?" So wasn't I surprised when she started her first day and was pecking out emails with her index fingers on her keyboard.
When confronted by the boss on this little resume faux pas, she admitted that she was told to put it on there by a recruiter. We all had a good chuckle at her expense. She was laid off shortly thereafter for botching a report to finance; something she should've learned in school.
Moral of the story here: universities can teach book knowledge and rote memorization, but they cannot teach practical skills that are valuable in the workplace. Even the most pedigreed of graduates seldom leave understanding how to do a pivot table in Excel or even modify the margins in a Word document.
Sad.
I’m a data center engineer, FRiend. You’re talking to an engineer. Numbers and the manipulation thereof are a day-to-day task for me, and yes, they go to solve problems.
So you’ve effectively invalidated your argument that I’m utterly wrong by stating that manipulating numbers (to solve problems) is what engineering is about. What I stated, prima facie, is not untrue. You just added the prepositional phrase “to solve problems” to my argument.
Thank you!
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