Is project Greater Albania gaining acceptance? (Another war?)

Deutsche Presse-Agentur via Business Recorder ^ | December 06, 2010 | Thomas Brey

[Bokababe]

...Contemporary proponents of the Greater Albania employ a two-pronged strategy to gather supporters. "We are a social-welfare movement." Vetevendosje chief Kurti said. He seeks to draw support from the reservoir of energetic young people, frustrated by economic hopelessness, poverty and unemployment.

The other direction of Vetevendosje action is to play up allegations of discrimination of Albanians in Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro....

[eleni121]

I think that Clinton’s phony war to “save” these Muslim vermin - the Albanians - will go down in history as one of the worst treacheries committed against the American people by the US deep state.

Maybe second only to FDR’s love affair with the Marxist-Leninists in the 1930s.

[PapaBear3625]

It’s just amazing to me that despite the repeated failures of all forms of socialism, in every country it has been tried, there are still political movements claiming to be inspired by it. Is it that people can’t learn from history and experience, or won’t learn?

Socialism HAS NOT FAILED. In every country where it was tried, it was wildly successful in enriching the "insiders" for as long as it lasted.

You think Hugo Chavez's inner circle don't live the good life?

[Bokababe]

Since the Albanians were chr*stian before they were moslem, do you suppose they could be reverted to chr*stianity? And if so, would that solve anything?

1. No.

2. No, again -- not at this stage of the game. I've heard that the primary "religion" of Albanians is "Albanian", meaning that they follow the Kanun which is an ancient code of conduct that Albanians adhere to regardless of religion. It's a a very primitive, tribal code of behavior that set up blood feuds and the like, killing more Albanians than anyone or anything else ever has.

I note that DioGuardi is an Italo-Albanian Catholic.

Yes, and DioGuardi had no ethical problem whatever using his US government connections to create a new (Albanian) Muslim State in the Balkans -- even after 9/11.

Joe DioGuardi is an Albanian first and foremost. He's an Albanian before he is a Roman Catholic, is Albanian before he is an Italian and is even Albanian before he is American --the latter of which makes him completely unfit to ever hold Congressional office again!

[Zionist Conspirator]

I've heard that the primary "religion" of Albanians is "Albanian"

Joe DioGuardi is an Albanian first and foremost. He's an Albanian before he is a Roman Catholic, is Albanian before he is an Italian and is even Albanian before he is American

Unfortunately, that sounds just like every other ethnic American politician. Only us rednecks get left out.

Even if the Albanians reverted (and again, they were chr*stians before they were moslems) that wouldn't necessarily bring peace. Ethnic groups who share the same religion sometimes hate each other's guts (Black and white Baptists, Pat Buchanan and the Mexicans, Orthodox Serbs and Catholic Croats, and even inter-Orthodox clashes among Serbs, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Greeks).

I honestly used to believe that religious beliefs were supposed to come before anything and everything else, and my very hard meeting with reality has left me very, very cynical and depressed.

[Bokababe]

Ethnic groups who share the same religion sometimes hate each other's guts... even inter-Orthodox clashes among Serbs, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Greeks

Um, what "ethnic clashes" among the Orthodox?

The Greeks and Serbs have never fought against each other over anything. They've always been best friends. In 1999, when the Serb army was forced to withdraw, Greeks even came to Kosovo as volunteers to act as bus drivers for Serb children in order to protect them from the Albanians.

Serbia and Montenegro have had political issues -- mostly instigated by the West-- but have never had "ethnic issues" because when it comes down to it, any Montenegrin who was ever worth a damn in Montenegrin history, considered himself "a Serb".

In the Balkan Wars. the Bulgarians fought the Serbs and Greeks over the division of land as the Ottoman Turks retreated, but it wasn't "an ethnic clash" --it was political.

And Macedonia never really fought anyone -- again the the problems between them and Greece & Serbia were political -- also again, mostly instigated by the West.

The Albanians, on the other hand, have no Balkan friends at all -- and for good reason.

[Zionist Conspirator]

I was referring specifically to Montenegrin and Macedonian nationalism (ie, the Macedonian Orthodox Church), and the sometimes heated quarrel between Macedonia and Greece (the Greeks not even wanting them to use the name “Macedonia”).

[Bokababe]

I was referring specifically to Montenegrin and Macedonian nationalism (ie, the Macedonian Orthodox Church), and the sometimes heated quarrel between Macedonia and Greece (the Greeks not even wanting them to use the name “Macedonia”).

I'm American, but full-blooded Montenegrin by heritage.

The "Montenegrin nationalism" could only be pulled off after 50 years of communistic atheism (where Montenegrins lost their way, spiritually) and by pulling a whole lot of political strings from the outside. It's a political flash in the pan, it's not grassroots. The entire population of Montenegro is only a little over 600,000 -- the population of a medium-sized US metropolitan city. It's not hard to jerk their chain, especially after a bloody and complicated break-up of Yugoslavia where anything resembling a Serb must get on his knees and continually repeat, "Mea Culpa". Djukanovic is a a useful thug, not a leader. Montenegro is a managed province at the moment, not a country.

The Macedonian/Greek issue is a deliberately created political time bomb. Anyone with half a brain knew that an independent Yugoslav Macedonia was going to rub Greece the wrong way--as well it should. The country's entire existence is an irritant to all involved, so that no one will miss it when it's gone -- swallowed up by a Greater Albania. Sad, but it's independence was a suicide mission from the very beginning, and everyone knew it except the Macedonians.

I think that you are looking too hard at the little picture, which is admirable, but it is not the ultimate solution to the problem in this case. There are always local "reasons" which can be exploited by outsiders to cleave these regions apart -- and the Powers who have wanted to manage the region have done a hell of a good job of exploiting those cleavages.

The Balkans has too often been passed around by the major Powers as though they were a box of chocolates. This is nothing new. It's been going on for the last 150 years, which is why most of our ancestors got the hell out of there rather than live their lives at the whim and will of some foreign ruler. But sooner or later, the ruler goes broke and goes home or gets weak and gets thrown out -- and there is peace for a while, until the next outside Power gets too big for his britches and makes its move into the Balkans. Historically, it's ultimately been that Power's Waterloo, which is why I have never wanted the US to get involved there on ANY side. Long run it's always a losing proposition, no matter how well they think that they have it under control.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The "Montenegrin nationalism" could only be pulled off after 50 years of communistic atheism (where Montenegrins lost their way, spiritually) and by pulling a whole lot of political strings from the outside. It's a political flash in the pan, it's not grassroots. The entire population of Montenegro is only a little over 600,000 -- the population of a medium-sized US metropolitan city. It's not hard to jerk their chain, especially after a bloody and complicated break-up of Yugoslavia where anything resembling a Serb must get on his knees and continually repeat, "Mea Culpa". Djukanovic is a a useful thug, not a leader. Montenegro is a managed province at the moment, not a country.

And yet an independent Montenegro existed separately from Serbia for many years until the creation of Yugoslavia after WWI.

The Macedonian/Greek issue is a deliberately created political time bomb. Anyone with half a brain knew that an independent Yugoslav Macedonia was going to rub Greece the wrong way--as well it should. The country's entire existence is an irritant to all involved, so that no one will miss it when it's gone -- swallowed up by a Greater Albania. Sad, but it's independence was a suicide mission from the very beginning, and everyone knew it except the Macedonians.

So, rather than an independent Macedonia, what should have happened to it? Should it have stayed part of Serbia (where it was before Tito broke it off)? Be absorbed by Greece or Bulgaria?

Do you believe the ancient Macedonians (Philip II, Alexander) were Greeks? That's not a critical question; I don't know what they were myself. I'm just curious as to your opinion.

[Bokababe]

And yet an independent Montenegro existed separately from Serbia for many years until the creation of Yugoslavia after WWI.

Yes, my grandmother's grandmother was sister to Montenegro's most well-known Poet/Bishop/Prince, Njegos. I know the history well, including the bjelo/zelo nasi vote for joining Yugoslavia when Montenegrin King Nikola's daughter was the Queen of Serbia, and eventually became Queen of Yugoslavia. There was strife for a while, but it virtually disappeared.... until the break-up of Yugoslavia.

Although Montenegro has its own history, which Lord Tennyson even wrote about, it's population is small and it is otherwise surrounded by potentially hostile forces. With Albanians to the South, the Muslim Sandzak to the East that transverses the border of Serbia and Montenegro, and Bosnia & Croatia to the North Montenegrins are in deep trouble if all the Muslims in what was the former Yugoslavia want to link up from Bosnia to Kosovo -- and I think that they do. In an earlier time, Montenegro could protect itself because all the men were warriors. Today, they are "businessmen". Not a good situation at all.

So, rather than an independent Macedonia, what should have happened to it? Should it have stayed part of Serbia (where it was before Tito broke it off)? Be absorbed by Greece or Bulgaria? Do you believe the ancient Macedonians (Philip II, Alexander) were Greeks? That's not a critical question; I don't know what they were myself. I'm just curious as to your opinion.

Macedonia has completely burned its bridges with Serbia -- both in the pre-WWII assassination of King Alexander and in jumping ship from Yugoslavia. No, I don't think Macedonia can or should rejoin Serbia. It's best shot lies with Bulgaria, with which it is most culturally linked-- either allied to or part of it -- but I doubt the US or Euro powers will ever allows that -- which is why I said that Macedonian independence was "a suicide mission".

I know that the real "Macedonia" lies on the territory of Greece and is more akin to the cultures (Athenian, Spartan, etc) of Greece than it is to any other -- if that answers your question.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Bokababe.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Thank you for the information.

[Bokababe]

You are very welcome!

[Ravnagora]

Bokababe knows everything about everything.

[SunkenCiv]

Seriously, any alternative Albania would almost *have* to be greater than the one that exists now.

[Bokababe]

Seriously, any alternative Albania would almost *have* to be greater than the one that exists now.

Bigger, yes -- plus they have the highest birth rate in Europe.

[Bokababe]

Bokababe knows everything about everything.

Ouch!

[Ravnagora]

Boka, I really believe that you are one of the most educated, knowledgable people out there, and thank goodness you post on places like Free Republic. I always learn something from every one of your posts. Thank you as always.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

A few words about the Ancient Macedonians, I believe that their language was Greek, and the ancient Greeks considered them to be less politically developed Greeks, rather than ‘Barbarians’, i.e. everybody who did not speak Greek. It occupied the territory of the modern Greek province of Macedonia as well as the country of Macedonia. The residents of the country of Macedonia are primarily of Slavic descent, like Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Bosnia, and Croatia. Like all of them except Croatia and part of Bosnia it is religiously Orthodox.

Bokababe, I hope I have this more or less correct.

[Bokababe]

I have to admit, Lucius, that I am not an expert on the ancient period of Macedonia.

But I have been able to research that the Macedon Phillip inherited was quite tiny by comparison to what later became called Macedonia. The original Macedonians did speak a dialect of Greek. Macedonia expanded under Phillip and Alexander, and Macedonia expanded yet again during the Roman Empire.

Then, during the Byzantine period, much of the Western part got carved up by Bulgaria & Serbia, hence the Slavic speaking Macedonians. Yet when the Turks conquered the Balkans, the term "Macedonia" pretty much fell into disuse.

In the late 19th and early 20th century, the retreat of the Turks, the Balkan Wars and the population exchange of Greeks in Turkey produced a massive migration and population exchange in Greater Macedonia. The Slavic-speaking Macedonians for the most part went North into Bulgarian Macedonia and NW into what became the Yugoslavian Macedonia, and a substantial number of Greeks coming from Turkey moved into Greek Macedonia. Some of Greater Macedonia even wound up as part of Albania

Here are some maps. The 1st one shows Macedonia (at its largest) crossing the borders of several countries:

And here's one that shows the Macedon of Phillip, in yellow and it's expansion crossing borders.

[Bokababe]

I always learn something from every one of your posts. Thank you as always.

Thanks Ravs, I had great teachers. Yet only God Knows "everything about everything". I am just a really curious reader some subjects that interest me.

My mother once said that I was the only kid she'd ever seen with whom you had to pry a book out of my hand to get me to go outside and play.