Glenn Beck: They’re lying to us about the mystery contrail

Hot Air ^ | 11/19/2010 | Right Scoop

[JohnKinAK]

Glenn Beck said today that he has spoken to military experts about the mystery contrail from a few weeks ago and he says it’s definitely not a plane, but rather a two stage missile. He just wants to know where it came from, and he has a theory. Beck postulates that this missile was possibly from a Chinese sub off the coast of California, perhaps as a show of force to the world, but even more so to President Obama.

Click link for video

[TigersEye]

Where do you think CBS got the following contrail image from? It isn't part of the released video footage! Yet again more evidence that what CBS showed was edited for effect.

Wow! Talk about conspiracies!!! Is there a grassy knoll in there somewhere? Secret stills that were never released available on the internet. lol

[Finny]

Yikes. I almost believe that you actually believe it was a UPS plane! But if you're a pilot familiar with Avalon and the airspace over the Channel Islands, then you're either kidding yourself or readers of FR for reasons of your own.

The fact is that you're not nearly as familiar with watching Vandenberg launches as you think you are. You can see them from San Diego -- about 250 miles south-east, 150 miles EAST -- and you actually with a straight face say that's as good as seeing them from Santa Monica, which is more like 125 miles southeast (and about 100 miles east) of Vandenberg? I don't know who you insult more -- your readers, or yourself.

You're saying and expecting to be considered credible!!! -- that one can see a launch just as well with binoculars, and therefore have strong fundamental experience with which to compare viewing airliners at the same range casting contrails, at 250 miles as one can at 160 miles?

160 miles is the distance from Huntington Beach, where I watched both missile launches and airliners with special attention (as opposed to more or less taking them for granted when living much closer to VAFB) -- never lived in Santa Monica. And you know what? From HB, I NEVER DID see the airliners casting contrails from 250 miles distant that I know of, because they're too far off to see in such detail, and I expect that one couldn't tell through detail whether the vehicle casting a trail was a missile or a plane. As YOU know perfectly well, however, the time spent watching the phenomenon will tell you with solid certainty whether the phenomenon is a condensation trail or a missile plume. That's why using still shots to differentiate between airplane contrails and missile plumes are time wasters except in proving the angle/direction of the trail in relation to the sun.

I've not had remotely as much experience in private planes above L.A. as you, but I have had A LOT more experience living on the L.A. area coast compared to your own experiences, and also I lived within 19 to 30 or so miles of VAFB for about five years, and from 30 or so to 60 or so miles of VAFB for DECADES, dear ....

Yes, you DO need to be there. But you haven't, and you don't know what you don't know because of that simple fact.

Good heavens. Pull your "I know a missile when I see it!" baloney on somebody else. You don't fool me.

[Finny]

THE POINT IS that there is zero, zilch, nada way that at a viewing distance of 160 miles or less, any cognizant adult equipped with professional zoom lenses or binoculars could, for more than a nano-second, mistake a missile leaving a plume for a UPS plane leaving a condensation trail. Either it was a missile, or the cameraman lied blatantly and brazenly and provided totally false footage.

If you don't KNOW that ... well, you DO know that. So you're either lying deliberately to yourself, or to readers.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Brian Webb runs a website that follows Vandenberg launches.

I have subscribed to his launch email alerts for many years.

I think it is safe to say he is an expert on observing them.
So discredit me all you like.

You will have to discredit Brian Webb as well.....

http://www.spacearchive.info/

As of this morning, I would like to end any further discussion of the mystery “launch” reported on the evening of November 8th. I have determined that what was seen that evening is not a mystery and it was not a launch.

Also, please do not send me any further e-mails on this subject.

There has been speculation on the Internet that the event was a missile launch from a Chinese submarine.

If a foreign power covertly entered the waters adjacent to the U.S. mainland and launched a missile, it wouldn’t necessarily be an act of war, but it would be a major provocation. A provocation of that type could actually backfire by increasing U.S. fears over Chinese naval power in the Pacific. That could lead to a build up of the U.S. Navy’s anti-submarine warfare capability.

During the Cold War, the U.S. Navy was able to locate, track, and if necessary, kill Soviet ballistic missile submarines at sea. As a matter of fact, U.S. attack submarines (subs designed to hunt and kill other subs) reportedly would lurk submerged and meet up with Soviet subs shortly after they left port and follow the Soviet subs undetected for extended periods of time. Furthermore, land-based and carrier-based U.S. Navy anti-submarine warfare aircraft such as the P-3 and S-3 could also detect, track, and kill Soviet submarines.

It is reasonable to assume that the U.S. Navy has at least a partial ability track the movements of Chinese submarines. Furthermore, U.S. early warning satellites and radars (such as PAVE PAWS radar at Beale AFB in northern California) provide the U.S. military with the ability to immediately detect, pinpoint, and track missile launches at sea. The Navy probably also still has a formidable anti-submarine warfare capability that would allow it to quickly locate and kill hostile submarines.

Therefore, I think the assertion that the event of last week was a Chinese weapons test to be highly unlikely.

Again, please do not send me any further e-mails about the supposed mystery launch.

Brian Webb

Again, the contrail science web page has a great video showing all the camera angles lining up perfectly with the UPS jet as source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwQNdadIv4

He provides all sources for his data.
You can check it yourself.

Please show me where the data is in error?

[Finny]

Also, please do not send me any further e-mails on this subject.

Are you confusing me with someone else? You need to know that I only sent you ONE freepmail (and have never emailed you) on Nov. 10, back when I thought you lived here in the L.A. mid-O.C. area. I only sent that one, and have not sent any since.

If you recall, it was to compare things we've seen from VAFB. At the time I sent the FReepmail, I was still under the impression that you were an actual WATCHER of VAFB launches from a reasonable distance, in which case you'd know what I was talking about. Received no answer, which was fine, but a day or two later, I read-up on your posts and discovered that you live in San Diego, for Pete's sake.

[Finny]

And to put things in perspective: people living in TAMPA are about twice as close to launches at Cape Canaveral than people in San Diego are to launches from VAFB.

[Sto Zvirat]

As for some of the so called UPS contrail experts on FR, they are most likely government shills.

Whenever a Conspiracy Theorist is proven wrong, they accuse the other side of being in on the conspiracy. LOL Got any proof that it was a missile? Nearly a month, and no proof whatsoever.

[Rokke]

"And to put things in perspective: people living in TAMPA are about twice as close to launches at Cape Canaveral than people in San Diego are to launches from VAFB.

So the pictures below were taken from San Diego of a missile launch from Vandenberg. Notice the distinct missile trail.

Also notice what happens to the missile trail after a few minutes in the upper atmosphere.

And here's the same launch photographed much closer to Vandenberg (and only 45 seconds after launch).

And here's the event that occured off the coast of LA on 8 Nov.(a still taken from the video)

The same event captured from another angle in LA...

And from yet another angle (Hermosa Beach)...

Why is it that an actual missile launch looks similar even when the photographs are taken hundreds of miles apart, but the event that occured off the coast of LA on 8 November looks significantly different to people just tens of miles apart? And why is that no actual missile launch looks anything like the 8 Nov contrail?

[fabian]

give me a break...well known general said it is a rocket...looks like a rocket..thick contrail not like a plane...you are either very gullible or lieing.

[higgmeister]

Why do you automatically assume that you are responding to an Obama supporter?

I never said or even thought your were an Obama supporter. That is all the more reason that I wonder why you feel the need to cover for him in this case.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Sorry I should have put that in quotes.

That wasn’t me speaking but Brian Webb as he has been hounded by Chinese sub conspiracy types.

Again Brian Webb, a VERY experienced vandenberg launch observer. Even has watched air to air missile tested.

Yes I live in San Diego.
GASP.
But your totally bizarre insistance that my obervations from LA are not useful utterly escapes me.

Again. The nail in the coffin evidence and none of you guys have addressed it, you keep ignoring it.

Why?...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwQNdadIv4

[Names Ash Housewares]

Prove this information inaccurate....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwQNdadIv4

Show me where he is wrong.

[higgmeister]

As of this morning, I would like to end any further discussion of the mystery “launch” reported on the evening of November 8th. I have determined that what was seen that evening is not a mystery and it was not a launch.

What a joke! His Imperial Majesty Master Webb has made his pronouncement from on high and commands the end to all discussion. What a fool.

Facts still exist. The USN can do all those things (I was stationed on a P-3 Orion base) and the Chinese can launch missiles from submarines. The one does not automatically negate the other.

The next important fact is that Obama is a coward that will never use the nuclear option and our enemies know it. Therefore they have been emboldened to act against us. Provocations such as the North Korean attack and this missile launch will continue with the TOTUS in charge.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Prove this information inaccurate....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwQNdadIv4

Show me where it is wrong.

All the source data used is provided so you can examine it yourself.

[fabian]

for whatever reason, the man is a spinster and you are one gullible guy ! Look at the original video...it is the trajectory of a missile with a huge contrail and a brightness at the head! Not an airplane dummy! God lord...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZLYn44FeQ&feature=related

[Names Ash Housewares]

Yes I’ve seen the video, and looked at it very carefully.

You cannot prove his data wrong however by simplying calling him a “spinster” and walking away.

That’s pretty weak man not good for your arguement.

Where is the data wrong?

Again I have seen all the elements of that made up this illusion personally, the site explains all of them extremely well......

http://contrailscience.com//

The glint is a big part of why I think some of you people are so incredibly confused. Add in a good dose of political paranoia and there you are.

Where is the data wrong?

It’s not a lot of data. UPS flight track, a few ground pics and locations alingned with the flight track, and satellite contrail photos.

Which is wrong?

Show me.

[higgmeister]

Show me where he is wrong.

This is so sad. The goofy contrail science guy on your link at one point says that the contrail he is looking at is 150 miles from where the CBS cameraman said he recorded the video, yet we are to believe they were both looking at the same event.

He also said the missile plume only had to be 9000 feet high to be viewed from the helicopter. What difference does that make? If he figured right, that indicates that when the video recording started the missile was already 9000 feet up and continued to climb. That does not repudiate a missile launch no matter how disparagingly he said it. The most rediculious claim is that a contrail is immediately blown perpendicular to the object track like a comet tail around the sun.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Imagine running east in a straight line holding a smoking object over your head with a crosswind coming from the north.

What happens?

the “contrail” blows south, dispersing wider the farther back it is from you and always at an angle from your straight ground path your runnning in.

Everything is moving. things are not going to line up.

There was a huge crosswind componant that day. All polots correct for this to keep on course.

The 9K feet is where the contrail would have had to have been if it was only 35 miles off the coast as CBS said fr the helicopter to see it as such.

The CBS numbers was only an eyeball estimate. Not measured data.

He is commenting that 9K feet is incredibly low if that were the case.

The weather satellite data shows exactly where the contrail was and where it blew.

It all matches perfectly with the UPS flight track as originating source.

I’m sorry, but it was a jet.

You can challenge him dirctly. I invite you to do so, he is answering querys there it seems.

[Finny]

oops!

Blatant lie and "disinformation" posing as "truth." This guy wants me to respond and compare SIX photos, none of which come from the original Leyvas video as seen HERE ......... or at this CBS NEWS story.

Although Rokke does outright claim one as taken from the Leyvas video -- the fourth photo in the post. I love side-by-side viewing in computers. Look for yourself -- that image does not appear in the video at either of the links above. In fact, not a single one of the photos he extends as evidence, argument, or proof are verifiable in the most remote sense as being what they claim to be.

On top of that, still photos are the only way for a person to confuse a launch for an airliner for long, and you know this to be true yourself. Come on -- how long have you ever been fooled by a contrail? You watch it for awhile and can determine pretty quickly that it's not a missile, expecially if it's in your direct airspace. Puh-leeeeeze.

So was the cameraman being a total hoaxer and liar? It was either that ... or he videod a missile launch. Gulp.

There IS illusion at play here. And it is very far away from being connected with optics. That's why the airline contrail folks have to push so many gimmicks, flashy pics, overlays, graphs, and probably photo shop trickery to get the lighting right.

Like Democrats. They have to cheat to "win" this argument.

This canary is singing in the coal mine. Heads up, friends.

[Finny]

Ping to higgmeister to post above