ATF position on pistol grip 'shotguns' creates new danger

Gun Rights Examiner ^ | November 14, 2010 | David Codrea

[optiguy]

An interpretation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that pistol grip shotguns are not shotguns has created an unforeseen legal liability for owners of such firearms. ATF’s Nov. 2009 FFL Newsletter declared:

Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example, firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.

Here’s another wrinkle, from Mike Vanderboegh at Sipsey Street Irregulars:

An October 27, 2010, letter from the Firearms Technology Branch ruled that such a firearm, with a 17" barrel and 26-1/4" overall length, was not subject to the National Firearms Act.

You can click here to read the letter.

That would seem to indicate there’s no issue with violating National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) requirements, right? No worries if you own one, or want to buy one…?

Not so fast. If the pistol grip firearms are not “shotguns,” what are they?

The NFA Owners Association points us to the only “legal” definition seemingly available with which to classify these firearms (click on link for “National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, as amended” to open up the text):

[T]aken at face value, a "pistol grip firearm" with a bore diameter larger than 1/2" in diameter is a "Destructive Device" under the NFA, unless the Attorney General determines that it is "a shotgun . . . generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes." By determining that a "pistol grip firearm" is not a shotgun, it is difficult to understand how current law would not classify such as firearm as a Destructive Device."

A “Destructive Device”?

"Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes." Source: 26 U.S.C, Section 5845(f).

Which means registration on the NFRTR would be required. But there’s no way to do that retroactively, is there?

Per Vanderboegh:

It appears there are only two solutions: (1) change the law to revert things as they were before ATF made the foregoing rulings, or (2) establish an amnesty period so millions of "Pistol Grip Firearms" can be lawfully registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) system.

Otherwise, he notes:

This action has apparently created millions of unregistered Destructive Devices, currently possessed by millions of law-abiding gun owners who do not realize they now illegally possess unregistered NFA firearms.

That is, depending on what ATF chooses to do next. Or what they have forced on them.

But certainly this is all hysteria and an unjustified over-reaction to some "poor wording"? Some would counsel us not to worry, broadly assuring:

There's no way these'll turn into NFA-controlled guns or suddenly become illegal.

Let’s hope such confidence is well placed, and the final word, and more authoritative than, say, the implications of ATF Ruling 95-3 (bearing in mind that per ATF, the pistol grip firearms in question are NOT shotguns, so any determination that they are “particularly suitable for sporting purposes” would be irrelevant by their own definition.)

What a confusing mess.

[Blood of Tyrants]

They can go f themselves.

[RicocheT]

Good thing I have my Mossberg “just in case” 12 gauge buried in my yard in the waterproof cylinder it came in. I have the location in my head and the fill the subdivision developer used for our lots was road ditch clean outs, so it’s full of junk metal.

See it at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=193BtueZxfs

[bruoz]

IMHO the current regime is using the “sporting purposes” wording in the GCA to effectively ban shotguns equipped with a pistol grip (not full stocks with a pistol grip). Clinton did the same thing to the Street Sweeper and Bush Sr. used it to block “black rifle” imports.

[Kent C]

“Saiga makes a good gun...so I hear ;)”

I’ve heard the same. And I hear Arsenal makes a really nice conversion :-)

http://www.arsenalinc.com/news-sgl41.htm

I’ve never had a misfire and all in the black from 20 yards with birdshot! Although I have 000 buck and sabot in the mag.

[Kent C]

“Wish I could have one of those in my state *drool*”

Some day.... soon perhaps.

[Kent C]

“Johnny Rutherford, Indy Racing champion, hunted with a pistol grip shotgun because he had broken his wrist racing.”

A wrist injury is why I have vertical grips on my long guns (left wrist/right handed) plus a crimson trace on the AR vertical grip ;-) And why I can no longer play the guitar easily - same ‘twist’. Anyone interested in a Gibson ES 335? :-)

[I see my hands]

.410 bore:

[Still Thinking]

There are MANY shotguns with pistol grips that are configured for hunting. They have full length buttstocks and pistol grips. The pistol grip reduces felt recoil by distributing recoil against more surface and makes the shotgun more controllable for a second shot which is particularly helpful when turkey hunting, etc.

If I understand correctly, it's the guns with ONLY a pistol grip and no stock ATF is making this [moronic] ruling about.

[USNBandit]

I shattered my radius on the job with the Navy, and while I can still shoot anything I want, I do have to limit the number of pistol rounds I shoot.

[Condor51]

Something is *odd* here.

First, this newsletter is from Nov of 2009. And I get every piece of paper or CD the BATF sends out as I have a Class 03 license and they send me everything. And I didn't get this newsletter. (I read everything from my friends at the BATF.)

Secondly, 'pistol grip' shotguns are still being made and sold by every shotgun manufacturer in existence. If they were 'illegal' the BATF would be all over the manufacturers and firearm dealers like flies on ____.

I'm NOT saying this isn't true (as in fake), its just *odd* that a one year old newsletter is NOW becoming 'news'. And again, I can't recall seeing this newsletter at all.

[Smokin' Joe]

"Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes." Source: 26 U.S.C, Section 5845(f).

Just curious, but does this include blackpowder pistols, too? I seem to recall a number of those produced with large caliber bores in years past.

[Ouderkirk]

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

I was thinking of a pistol grip shotgun in the pure sense of that. Pistol grip forend and another pistol grip at the trigger cage, with an overall length a few inches longer than the steel of the barrel and receiver.

As a gun dealer you know the stuff that you can get from Cheaper than Dirt.

The Command Arms picatinny systems for the Rem 870 are nice and are very effective.

[ExpatGator]

Roger that. Yes, in that configuration they would be difficult to hunt with. There are lots of neat goodies out there for the 870, which is a very good shotgun to start with.

[ctdonath2]

No. You are, understandably, confused.

The issue is pistol grip ONLY shotguns, which have no stock and never had a stock, and thus are under the federal definition of a shotgun not a shotgun. Shotguns have, or had, shoulder stocks - these don’t and haven’t.

“Short barreled shotguns” have, or had, shoulder stocks. They have a barrel under 18” OR an overall length under 26”. They are subject to the $200 NFA tax. The key here is the shoulder stock.

Pistol grip only shotguns do not have, and never had, shoulder stocks. If it meets the definition of a pistol, but has a smooth barrel (a la fires shotgun shells), it is a smoothbore pistol and thus an NFA AOW, subject to registration and $5 tax. If it does NOT meet the definition of a pistol (esp. if over 18” barrel and over 26” overall), then it is ... nothing under federal law: it’s not a shotgun (has/had no stock), it’s not a pistol (too long), and thus undefined and unregulated and legal. The law gets fuzzier if the barrel is under 18” and overall length exceeds 26”, a rare combination which the author is getting hot and bothered about.