Marine Corps' Treatment of Civilian Defense Investigators

North County Times ^ | October 15, 2010 | Rick Rogers

[Lancey Howard]

Charges are flying like heat lightning in July. The Marine Corps' treatment of civilian defense investigators is the lightning rod. A few weeks back, this columnist reported the ACLU suit claiming harassment brought against Marine prosecutors and Camp Pendleton-based Naval Criminal Investigative Service G-men on behalf of Carlsbad defense investigator Carolyn Martin. That case will see the inside of a federal courtroom later this month.

Now another investigator, the colorful and controversial Harvey "Hap" Ames of Yucca Valley, is claiming that the Marine Corps blackballed him from Corps base at Twentynine Palms because he springs too many of his clients by exposing cooked NCIS evidence.

Sources say the Marine brass has had it up to the helmet with the meddling and might install its own defense investigators to put civilians like Martin and Ames in their place and out of business.

Let's hope cooler heads prevail. Those in the know are wise to the fact that Marine defense lawyers are hamstrung like no other military attorneys in the land, and any further moves to undermine them might prompt someone into much delayed action.

Hey, Marine Corps, quit while you're ahead.

[Lancey Howard]

Rick Rogers strung together a series of quick reports in this week's column, and the above story was in the middle.

[Lancey Howard]

(( ping ))

[4woodenboats]

We've not yet seen round one yet and the ubiquitous Ms Martin has Sullivan's nose in the dirt. ;~)

Speaking of dirt, whatever happened to NCT's previous reporter...can't seem to recall his name..hmm, no matter.

[jazusamo]

Thanks for the ping, Lancey.

Interesting that there's another investigator that the NCIS and Marine Corps seem to want to stifle.

Earlier article on Caroyn Martin that Saoirise posted:

MILITARY: Suit alleges military violated woman's rights

.

HADITHA MARINE PING!

[xzins]

...might install its own defense investigators...

Notice the admission that Marine defendants have not had investigators for the defense in the past, and the admission that the Marine Corps should have them?

That itself should throw out an awful lot of convictions.

It is an awful admission that the investigators have functioned on the side of the prosecutors, and with the knowledge of the commanders.

Unlawful Command Influence would also be an issue when carried to its logical conclusion....seems to me, anyway.

[jazusamo]

Excellent point and I agree.

It sounds like if a defendant didn’t have the means to hire a civilian attorney they were at the mercy of the Corps for an investigator.

[bigheadfred]

can't seem to recall his name

Squawker. Mark Squawker.

You only have the right to a fair trial. Nothing out there guarantees that get you one. You just have the right.

[Marine_Uncle]

Am I to believe the ACLU is actually trying to work in behalf of a 14 year veteran Marine?

[jazusamo]

It’s an astonishing thing isn’t it, MU? :-)

[Marine_Uncle]

I’ll say.

[freema]

: )

[jazusamo]

Hiya Ma, good to see you around! :-)

[freema]

Hiya, Jaz. Love you <3

[Girlene]

Thanks for the pings, all. Just catching up with FR.

Sources say the Marine brass has had it up to the helmet with the meddling and might install its own defense investigators to put civilians like Martin and Ames in their place and out of business.............

...........Hey, Marine Corps, quit while you're ahead.

Rick Rogers is 100% right on this one, IMO. 4wb, remember the comments Hap Ames was posting on the CAAFLOG thread about the Carolyn Martin suit? Colorful and controversial is a good way to describe him based on his posts! :-)

xzins - Notice the admission that Marine defendants have not had investigators for the defense in the past, and the admission that the Marine Corps should have them?

Yep, and it's interesting that Rick Rogers sees the trouble with banning independent civilian investigators from defending Marines. As he said,

Let's hope cooler heads prevail. Those in the know are wise to the fact that Marine defense lawyers are hamstrung like no other military attorneys in the land, and any further moves to undermine them might prompt someone into much delayed action.

If this happens, Article 32's/court martials and kangaroo courts will become synonymous.

[4woodenboats]

Hi Girl,

Yeah, he was a kick, but the one Anon that inferred he held Ms Martin's future on the base was who I was interested in, and he crawled back in his hidey (hiney?) hole, and the topic kinda drifted off.

Hap wanted him too - most everyone did, and I think he has a pretty good idea who it is....he's probably still monitoring the site.

That was a great find of yours; I wonder what's been going on since then....

[4woodenboats]

One post since I last checked;

BrigGen says:

September 24, 2010 at 1:33 am (Quote) "The case of discussion is that a defense investigator has claimed that her Constitutional Rights have been violated by NCIS Agents, SJA, etc. I’ve known Ms. Martin over ten years. In our many conversations, she has spoken with admiration of trial counsel, SJAs and yes, some NCIS Agents.

Ms. Martin’s track record speaks for itself – I’m guessing about an 85% success rate. Most notably, she recently conducted a post-trial investigation that resulted in an Article 120 conviction overturned at the NMCCA. It is clear that the negative comments found on this blog are baseless. I would expect that before litigating a case the case file would be read. I would suggest that Ms. Martin’s filed complaint and injunction motion be read before commenting on this blog.

In my ‘personal opinion’ no American should be denied their Constitutional Rights. I’m not an attorney but it doesn’t take a law degree to see what’s going on here."

[Girlene]

Yes, I saw that post.

In my ‘personal opinion’ no American should be denied their Constitutional Rights. I’m not an attorney but it doesn’t take a law degree to see what’s going on here."

Couldn't agree more. We shall see what happens with her suit, but I think they may have over-stepped on this one.

[4woodenboats]

It's looking like the "over reaching" is much more pervasive than we thought, if that blog - and the attitudes comfortably struting in the nude there are emblematic of the power structure.

When we saw a Colonel running an investigation on the Haditha Betrayal and went on TV to pursuade America that her defenders are murderers, we asked WTH!

Now with these new revelations we should be asking JUST HOW LONG HAS THIS BEEN GOING ON!?

[Girlene]

JUST HOW LONG HAS THIS BEEN GOING ON!?

Probably quite a while. In the long run, the Colonel likely did the Haditha Marines a favor by providing insight into the mind set of those in charge of the investigation. Painting a target on his own back led to uncovering possible UCI, at least in Lt Col Chessani's case.

Two more articles on CAAFlog, Deadline Set for Defendants' Answer in Martin V. NCIS, Martin V. NCIS Update....not very many responses (still at least one snarky anon, though).

[Girlene]

Found another CAAFlog posting with more links to the govt's response, etc. The United States Reveals Its Martin v. NCIS Filings.....very interesting. The way I read those various filings is that Ms. Martin originally came under scrutiny in Beaufort, SC because she cautioned a possible prosecution witness (that she was interviewing for her client) from being bullied by NCIS. I believe she was debarred from that facility.

Allegedly, she is under investigation for "witness tampering" and attempted obstruction of justice" for talking to the ex-wife of her client, then cautioning her about NCIS tactics. oh-la-la and wowsa. They then debarred her from entering that facility, essentially not giving her access to any other witnesses (at least at the facility).

Don't mess with NCIS or the military in their search for a conviction! If they keep this up, they'll soon have all their dirty tricks exposed.