As for your post, "Do you have one of these on your car?"...here's your sign:
Posted on 10/14/2010 7:36:52 AM PDT by ConservativeStatement
A family dispute at Beach Place on Wednesday afternoon ended with a man fatally shooting his sister and then turning the gun on himself as they stood next to their mother, police said.
Juan Alicea Orozco, 23, of Fort Lauderdale, died shortly afterward at Broward General Medical Center. His sister, Jesnishia Alicea Orozco, 25, of Oakland Park, died that evening at the same hospital. Their mother was not injured, police said.
(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...
So you believe that with each state that is added to the Union the United States ceases to exist and instead reinvents itself as the “new” United States?
Stormer said that Hispanics lived in what “became” the United States long before the English did...implying that they had some kind of claim to the land. They did not.
That is demonstrably false. The US only became the US one time. Spaniards had nothing to do with the founding of the US. Nothing. We continually fought with Spain and Spanish colonies...later, we absorbed areas that Spain had controlled.
Maybe we aren’t even the United States yet because Puerto Rico hasn’t achieved statehood?
The comments about “2 less”, “gene pool cleansing” and “illegals” are pretty disturbing. All the facts we have are that a man murdered his sister, then killed himself, in front of their mother while she was at work. The family has an Hispanic surname, a fact which reveals absolutely nothing about their legal residency. These comments seem to be implying that the sister deserved to die, or that the mother deserved to have this happen in front of her because...they’re Hispanic? Is that it?
So are you saying my children, whose ancestors never lived in the Country of Mexico, but were natives of the Western United States in New Mexico, Utah and Colorado should go “back” and that they are now interlopers in this country?
If so I hate to have you as a representation of someone who is conservative....you would be just a racist creep.
LOL! Geographically challenged, are we? As has been pointed out, I never said anything about the original colonies - but let’s ignore that for now. The oldest European-founded city in the US is St. Augustine, Florida, founded 1565 by (gasp) Spaniard, Pedro Menendez de Avilez (note the Hispanic name). Of course if you were from El Pueblo Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncola - oops, I mean Los Angeles - you might have a better idea about your nation’s history. Or San Francisco, El Paso, San Antonio, the San Juan Islands, Montana, the Sierra Nevada, Las Vegas... I could go on.
I like how you avoided my reasonable questions with an attempt to use the race card. Thank God that is an instant disqualification here. I’ve said nothing like what you suggest, I’ve only discussed history.
If you want to believe in some touchy-feely PC version of history that has the entire World singing kumbaya while authoring the Declaration of Independence, go for it. But it isn’t fact.
Let me ask you a simple question, since you seem to have trouble answering without relying on attacking the man instead of the message.
Did Eskimos live in “what became the US” long before anyone named Smith did? If so, what debt exactly do we owe to our Inuit Founding Fathers?
A factual sentence would be...
“Hispanics lived in areas which became PART of the United States long before anyone named Smith, but by the time these areas gained statehood Hispanic influence was virtually non-existent.” Of course, by the same token you could say that other Europeans lived in areas of the United States long, long before anyone named Garcia showed up. If you really wanted to be accurate, you would mention that those areas consisted of 3 main areas...Florida, California, and New Mexico. None of which had anything to do with the founding of the United States.
Of course, I could counter that easily by mentioning the Indians who lived in those same areas long, long before their Spanish overlords arrived. Now what?
I considered countering your claims of my racism by calling you a pedophile, but I won’t. Child molestation trumps racism, right Chester?
You my friend, are simply changing the subject. Perhaps you should read the posts from the start of the thread instead of listening to your own voice speak. You would see that we are talking about the rights of folks names Garcia, Salazar, Trujillo, and Ochoa to be here.
You aren’t that dense are you?
So it is your contention that St. Augustine “became” the United States? Who knew that the British colonies actually started in a Spanish one.
Interesting.
Only 13 colonies, which were British, became the US. No more, no less. Which one of the original 13 were Spanish?
In my first post to you I acknowledged the Spanish presence in the New World. Just being here first doesn’t mean you formed the United States.
In fact, by the time the places you mention became part of the United States, Spanish influence was long gone. What remained were the Mestizos and place names.
I guess since Chicago is an Indian word, Indians formed what became Chicago?
Who knew they were so advanced?
So...did Eskimos have a role in the founding of our nation also?
I changed the subject?
By pointing out that you answered none of my questions, and instead called me a racist?
Please point out where you answered any of my questions. I can show you where you screamed racism if you wish.
“You would see that we are talking about the rights of folks names Garcia, Salazar, Trujillo, and Ochoa to be here.”
No, that is what you’re talking about. I’m talking about history.
So please, answer my questions that I posed to you before I “changed the subject.” Why won’t you?
You don’t have to destroy your enemy, just his willingness to engage. Why won’t you engage?
I didn’t call you a racist. I said IF you think that my children should go “back” to a country they NOR their ancestors ever lived in, THEN you WOULD be a racist.
Now, please go back to post #11. The original post you responded to on this thread and see if you can determine the intent and purpose for stormer posting it. Then see if your post #12 doesn’t sound racist. These two posts are the basis for this discussion.
Sheesh!
Don’t be coy. You attempted to put words in my mouth. Then, after authoring words that you wish to attribute to me, you accused me of racism.
You also neatly avoided all the difficult questions by doing so. Too bad that ploy is worn so thin these days.
“Then see if your post #12 doesn’t sound racist.”
Please quote the exact words in post #12 that “sound racist.”
“These two posts are the basis for this discussion.”
I’ve done nothing but elaborate on my initial post, you know, the basis for this discussion.
You, on the other hand, have repeatedly insulted me, put words in my mouth, and then attempted to call me a racist based on your own imagination.
I can’t help but notice that you ignored those damn questions again. Since you seem to really like post #12, why don’t you just answer the questions contained within it? Feel free to start there. And don’t use the dreaded “r” word.
Please, don’t forget to quote the exact words from my post #12 which you believe “sound racist.”
Your “logic” is positively bizarre. Are you saying that areas not included in the original 13 colonies did not become the United States? Furthermore, the original colonies did not even achieve statehood at the same time. Have you ever wondered why Delaware’s motto is “The First State”? Because it is! Here is a list of states and their DOBs:
1 Delaware 7 December 1787
2 Pennsylvania 12 December 1787
3 New Jersey 18 December 1787
4 Georgia 2 January 1788
5 Connecticut 9 January 1788
6 Massachusetts 6 February 1788
7 Maryland 28 April 1788
8 South Carolina 23 May 1788
9 New Hampshire 21 June 1788
10 Virginia 25 June 1788
11 New York 26 July 1788
12 North Carolina 21 November 1789
13 Rhode Island 29 May 1790
14 Vermont 4 March 1791
15 Kentucky 1 June 1792
16 Tennessee 1 June 1796
17 Ohio 1 March 1803
18 Louisiana 30 April 1812
19 Indiana 11 December 1816
20 Mississippi 10 December 1817
21 Illinois 3 December 1818
22 Alabama 14 December 1819
23 Maine 15 March 1820
24 Missouri 10 August 1821
25 Arkansas 15 June 1836
26 Michigan 26 January 1837
27 Florida 3 March 1845
28 Texas 29 December 1845
29 Iowa 28 December 1846
30 Wisconsin 29 May 1848
31 California 9 September 1850
32 Minnesota 11 May 1858
33 Oregon 14 February 1859
34 Kansas 29 January 1861
35 West Virginia 20 June 1863
36 Nevada 31 October 1864
37 Nebraska 1 March 1867
38 Colorado 1 August 1876
39 North Dakota 2 November 1889
40 South Dakota 2 November 1889
41 Montana 8 November 1889
42 Washington 11 November 1889
43 Idaho 3 July 1890
44 Wyoming 10 July 1890
45 Utah 4 January 1896
46 Oklahoma 16 November 1907
47 New Mexico 6 January 1912
48 Arizona 14 February 1912
49 Alaska 3 January 1959
50 Hawaii 21 August 1959
'Baby on Board' --I'm more important than you are --so be extra careful driving around me...
I’m not the only one who responded to your post questioning your reasoning. Your post elicited several responses questioning your position.
Tell me, please, what rights did people with Hispanic surnames have in the original 13 colonies?
Do you think there were ANY folks in the original colonies that had Hispanic surnames?
Your logic is flawless, however. After all, it is perfectly logical to ignore questions in a debate and instead just plow ahead.
Answer one simple question, if only one.
Did Eskimos live in what “became” (key word here...if you had said “became part of” then there would be no discussion) the United States?
Did they? Because the United States only “became” one time...in 1776. And in 1776, only former British colonies made up the United States. Of the 56 delegates that signed the DOI, which one was Hispanic? Which one represented Hispanic areas?
If you manage to answer that one and are feeling spry, feel free to go back and answer one of the many questions you’ve skipped so far.
As for your post, "Do you have one of these on your car?"...here's your sign:
Who let those damn French in? /sarcasm
I like how you continually refuse to answer questions that are difficult for you...but expect me to answer yours.
But since I’m correct, I have no problem answering yours. Your avoidance of mine just proves my point.
“I’m not the only one who responded to your post questioning your reasoning. Your post elicited several responses questioning your position.”
Ah, an appeal to the majority. Well, if other people believe it, it must be true. Everyone knows that.
“Tell me, please, what rights did people with Hispanic surnames have in the original 13 colonies?”
What rights did a homosexual Laplander in a wheelchair have? How much do we owe to our homosexual, handicapped Laplander founders?
I’m not sure what your point is. Because Hispanics had equal rights, they must be equally responsible for the creation of the very system that gave them equal rights? Which one of the 56 delegates was a Spaniard? The answer is none. Which of the original 13 colonies had a sizable Spanish population? None. The Spaniards were the ENEMIES of the British, and therefore the enemies of the colonies. So while all the raiding and killing was going on...how do you think Spaniards were received? I’ll give you a hint...about like a newly arrived German circa 1942.
The Dutch created South Africa. There was nothing there before they arrived. Black Africans (now) have equal rights in South Africa. Therefore, Black Africans must have founded South Africa. Is that how it goes?
“Do you think there were ANY folks in the original colonies that had Hispanic surnames?”
A lot of the folks in the original colonies had African surnames. Did Africans found the US? Nice strawman, however. I’ve never said that there were zero Hispanics. Just that they didn’t found the colonies, they didn’t run the colonies, and they were a tiny, tiny minority. They were also the enemies of the colonies. So you tell me...how many do you think there were?
Since you obviously believe that there were more than a few, and that they held influence...why don’t you share some Spanish place names from New England?
You might find one or two. Now contrast that with California, or any of the Spanish controlled areas.
A reasonable person could infer from the lack of Spanish place names in New England/the 13 colonies that the Spanish had a level of influence that approximates the number of Spanish place names.
Just like you could infer that since in California Spanish place names are quite common, even prevalent, that they exerted considerable influence there at one time.
Now go off on another tangent.
You are a moron. Why do you want to deny the civilizing impact of the Spanish colonial period, even to go so far as to look for equivalence in the contribution of Eskimos? You have got to be shitting me. I can only guess about why you hate Hispanics, but I don’t need to know anything more about you than I already do. This whole argument began when you made the assumption that someone, anyone, with a Hispanic name is in this country illegally - that is stupid and wrong, but you attempted to cover you tracks and explain it all away by trotting out some completely irrelevant crap. Get a life.
You also wear those ribbons don’t you.....which ones do you have?
“Why do you want to deny the civilizing impact of the Spanish colonial period, even to go so far as to look for equivalence in the contribution of Eskimos?”
Which part of the Constitution would you say was influenced by Spanish colonialists?
“I can only guess about why you hate Hispanics, but I don’t need to know anything more about you than I already do.”
Ah, another cry of racism. I don’t hate Hispanics...but I am developing a strong dislike for their internet cheerleaders.
“This whole argument began when you made the assumption that someone, anyone, with a Hispanic name is in this country illegally”
No it didn’t. That is a flat out lie. In which post did I do that? Please quote me or link it.
“but you attempted to cover you tracks and explain it all away by trotting out some completely irrelevant crap”
So irrelevant that you were reduced to strawmen, insults, and cries of racism. Yep.
I gather by your insults and petulance that you’re gathering your toys and going home? Well...bye.
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