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Guns were an advantage for sure, but viruses made the difference.

Happy Columbus Day!

1 posted on 10/11/2010 3:55:46 PM PDT by Libloather
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To: Libloather

Too bad those viruses don’t work on Muslims


2 posted on 10/11/2010 3:57:46 PM PDT by Tribemike1
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To: Libloather

Up to 50% of the white population was wiped out by disease from the Asians, diseases are something that is tough to whip, they still kill millions of people every year.


3 posted on 10/11/2010 3:59:53 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Libloather
Courtesy of Katie Couric.
4 posted on 10/11/2010 4:00:43 PM PDT by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: Libloather

Well, speaking of diseases, the Indians pretty certainly gave Columbus’s crew syphilis in return. Because it appeared in Europe for the first time just about then.


5 posted on 10/11/2010 4:01:47 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: Libloather

Well, just to play devil’s advocate, how can they say that microbes were not part of God’s plan? But seriously, why didn’t the people already here have some microbe they gave to Europeans? Has anyone ever wondered about that? Why is it always the invaders who seem to have the stronger immune systems?


6 posted on 10/11/2010 4:02:55 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Libloather

I watched a show the other day that seems to indicate pretty strongly that the Japanese visited south America. Pottery that is identical to ancient pottery found in southern Japan and one small area of south America.

The strongest evidence are the very Asian features existing among natives today and a genetic disease found only among Japanese and a small isolated population in south America.

Polynesian skulls are found all around the pacific rim and they obviously made it to Hawaii and Easter Island.

I tend to think there was a lot more “traffic” in the ancient past but civilization didn’t come (and stay) till Columbus


7 posted on 10/11/2010 4:03:42 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Libloather
The racist myth of European superiority still shapes the story of the colonial conquest — starting with how the Caribs, Mayans, and Aztecs are remembered as never having had a chance against Spanish steel and gun powder.

Many Indians did die from disease, but still the Europeans fought and defeated armies of many time their number due to the superiority of their weapons and their horses, and both the men and horses were usually armored.

8 posted on 10/11/2010 4:04:38 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Libloather

Dem evil white dudes.


9 posted on 10/11/2010 4:04:56 PM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: Libloather

It went both ways. Contrary to what left wing “experts” say, there was little or no syphilis in Europe before it was brought back from the New World.


10 posted on 10/11/2010 4:05:09 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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To: Libloather

Same as it ever was. Get over it, already.


11 posted on 10/11/2010 4:06:47 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Libloather
The Indians got even. They gave the Old World syphilis. This Carroll guy is a long time iconoclast who makes his living by trashing the world of Cristendom. Blamed the Church from antiquity for the Holocaust. Maybe related to his being a disaffected former priest, apparently with a beef against the Church he once pledged to serve. Not a very credible writer.
12 posted on 10/11/2010 4:08:17 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Libloather

How did they arrive at an estimate of 25 million and how accurate is the methodology.

Oh right, it’s just a wild ass guess.


13 posted on 10/11/2010 4:08:50 PM PDT by Valpal1 ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.")
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To: Libloather
This was about 150 years after the Black Death when half of Europe died. I guess those evil white Europeans were so evil they unleashed biological warfare on themselves even.
16 posted on 10/11/2010 4:11:35 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Libloather

“it was in Iberia that ancient Christian anti-Judaism had recently morphed into genetic anti-Semitism — the idea that Jews are contemptible not because of their religion, but because of their “blood impurity.’’ This notion of a group’s innate biological inferiority tragically gripped the European imagination just as the encounter with the New World occurred. It was a decisive factor in the creation of modern racism that determined so much of what came in the wake of Christopher Columbus. Contempt for Jews was practice for contempt for aboriginal peoples.”

This is why historians suck at thinking. There always have to be connections. A drop of rain water hitting a Chinese emperor in 908 AD has striking reverberations in the Sudan in 2007, or whatever. Which has the advantage of both seeming to uncover something unrecognized before and appealing to the wild paranoia that runs through everyone’s head on a moment to moment basis. (Hey, what do I mean by THAT?)

There’s also got to be a “first,” right? Have to have our turning points. Some distinct moment when regular racism became really, really bad racism. And why not just when Europeans happened to commence permanent contact with the New World. ‘Cause imperialism is bad, colonialism is bad, and really, really wrong racism was behind all the badness (though diseases actually don’t care what sort of “blood” they’re infecting). Nevermind that everyone and their mother hurt the Jews. Europeans must have had a special hatred for them, ‘cause they’re Europeans. And Europeans are bad, ‘cause of the colonialism and imperialism. Which was caused by the racism. Which wasn’t like other people’s racism. ‘Cause of Colombus or the Jews or something. Can’t remember which.


19 posted on 10/11/2010 4:13:26 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Libloather
By far, the most decisive factor in the quick establishment of European control was the accident of disease. The immune systems of Western Hemisphere indigenous peoples were overwhelmed by pathogens that accompanied the Europeans, with the result that populations of so-called Amerindians were almost instantly decimated.

The dominant hypothesis is that Amerindian extirpation of 35 of 44 Pleistocene megafauna species rendered their immune systems unaccustomed to zoonotic diseases.

To which I would add that hunting the domesticable animals into oblivion seriously retarded agro-urban development and condemned many tribes to permanent seasonal nomadism.

20 posted on 10/11/2010 4:13:26 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The fourth estate IS the fifth column.)
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To: Libloather

Sadly it was completely unavoidable.


21 posted on 10/11/2010 4:14:18 PM PDT by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
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To: Libloather

By the time the Spanish came west, they had already been under muslim rule for hundreds of years. I hypothesize that muslim germs and dna invaded the the natives, and thus, they became ill, stupid, and ruthless.

So perhaps the mexicans invading our country have this muslim dna.

Maybe the conquistadors were actually muslims, and just pretended to be catholic, so they could point the finger and say look how ruthless Christians are.


25 posted on 10/11/2010 4:16:42 PM PDT by paintriot
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To: Libloather

So we should feel guilty? We who were not even alive then?

Should we just therefore open our Southern Border to the descendents of those very peoples, as historic justice?

If you think so you are the same as Obama. A fascist with historic justice as his calling card, the calling card of every fascist in modern history, including Hitler and Mussolini.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html


28 posted on 10/11/2010 4:17:25 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama . fascist info..http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: Libloather

This James Carroll character really is the epitome of the guilt-ridden, self-loathing white liberal. And he doesn’t mind throwing around a lot of historical inaccuracies while wallowing in his white guilt.


30 posted on 10/11/2010 4:18:52 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Libloather
“Well into the 19th century, the vast majority of transatlantic migrants (more than 80 percent up to 1820) came from Africa — labor to replace the disease-defeated Amerindians.”

I would hesitate to call slaves that were involuntarily relocated from their old masters in Africa to their new masters in the new world as “migrants”. Perhaps others can tell me if it is true, but weren't most of those “migrants” used to replace slave labor that died in the plantations of Brazil and the Caribbean?

34 posted on 10/11/2010 4:24:00 PM PDT by marktwain
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