Posted on 10/03/2010 9:12:54 AM PDT by kristinn
ABC News' Christiane Amanpour has done a great service today with her panel discussion on whether America should fear Islam.
Thanks to guests Franklin Graham, Robert Spencer and Peter Gadiel refusing to submit to Allah and political correctness, and the brashness of Anjem Choudary, Americans watching broadcast television have learned more about Islam in the hour long show than many have in the nine years since 9/11.
Franklin Graham was unapologetic in his stance on Islam, however he differentiated between Islam the religion and Muslim people. Gary Bauer and Ayaan Hirsi Ali also deserve credit for speaking truth to Islam on the broadcast.
AMANPOUR: I would like to go to Reza Aslan, who is joining us from Amsterdam, and who is a scholar on these matters. Reza, you have heard just right now several points raised. One is that Muslims in this country are trying to bring Sharia law. Is there a shred of evidence for that?
REZA ASLAN, WRITER, "THE DAILY BEAST"/author: No, not a single shred whatsoever. I think somebody needs to remind Franklin Graham that we don't judge our values in the United States by comparing them to what the Saudis do. This is a common refrain that you hear from a lot of anti-Muslim activists in the United States, including Robert Spencer, that, well, if, in Saudi Arabia, you can't have a church, then, therefore, in the United States, you shouldn't be allowed to have mosques. This is an appalling and laughable argument.
GRAHAM: You know we can have an argument -- but I'm not here to argue. As a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and that no man comes to the father in heaven except through him. I don't believe in Islam. I don't believe a word of it. I do respect their right to -- to believe whatever they want to believe. My opinions are not based on hearsay. My opinions are based on 50 years of working in Middle Eastern countries. I'm 58. I was -- eight years old when I made my first trip to Egypt. And I've been to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia. I've worked in these countries. But I disagree, Christiane, with -- with the Sharia law, because they do stone women. They do imprison -- I -- I've worked in the Sudan, where they've burned over a thousand churches -- a thousand.
... GRAHAM: When we talk about -- there are millions of Muslims in this world that are wonderful people, who don't beat their wives, who don't practice honor killings--
AMANPOUR: Why do you call it a wicked religion, an evil religion?
GRAHAM: I think to -- to take your daughter, because you think that -- and the religion gives you the authority -- Sharia gives you the authority for honor killing. And we saw the young girl in Ohio just a few--
....
KHAN: Well, this -- this particular center will create a counter-momentum against extremism, because it will amplify the voices of moderate Muslims, which have gotten drowned out over the years by the extremists, because the extremists did not only hijack the planes, they hijacked an entire religion.
AMANPOUR: Let me just say stop you there for a second, because this side is obviously the side that says one shouldn't fear and that there are moderates and the whole religion should not be painted with the same brush. I want to, though, now go to Anjem Choudary in London. You have said that you think there should be Islamic domination. Why shouldn't people be afraid of that?
CHOUDARY: Well -- well, let me just say that Islam has a solution for all of the problems that mankind faces. If you want to live at peace with Muslims, we are quite willing to live at peace with you. But let us remember that history did not begin on 9/11. Before 9/11, the Americans -- the American government bombed Sudan and Afghanistan. They were supporting the pirate state of Israel. So 9/11 was a reaction. You know, I think that we need to get away from the stereotyping. And this idea that you have moderate Muslims and you have radical Muslims, you know, it's complete nonsense. A Muslim is the one who submits to the command of the creator. If he submits, he is a practicing Muslim. If he is not, then he should be practicing.
DAISY KHAN: I have to disagree with him, because Islam is a religion of pluralism that embraces all religions and it also embraces different interpretations. This is why we have so many schools of thought. What Anjem is talking about is an exclusivist view of Islam, which is my way or the highway. And my interpretation is the only interpretation--
CHOUDARY: It's very easy for people to justify the fact that they're not practicing. I mean, this lady in your studio, she should be covering with the hijab. She's obviously not practicing --
(CROSSTALK)
CHOUDARY: There are many people who are justifying -- there are many people who are justifying the inability to practice the Sharia, to say, "Well, I have a different form of religion." You know, people want to claim that they're vegetarians and they're eating big beef burgers. You can not be a non-practicing vegetarian. Therefore, similarly, if you're a Muslim, you submit to the Sharia.
FRANKLIN GRAHAM: He's telling the truth.
AMANPOUR: You see, Reverend Graham says you're telling the truth. So, do you agree with Reverend Graham and our panelists on this side that Americans should fear Islam?
CHOUDARY: we do believe, as Muslims, the East and the West will one day be governed by the Sharia. Indeed, we believe that one day, the flag of Islam will fly over the White House. Indeed, there's even an oration of the Prophet where he said, "The day of judgment will not come until a group of my oma... -- "
DONNA MARSH O'CONNOR: Can I just -- ?
CHOUDARY: "Conquer the White House."
...
AMANPOUR But is it a question now of, basically, tarring or conflating, confusing everyone, 1.57 billion Muslims around the world, with that minority group who would do harm and who would cause violence?
GADIEL: I do not say that Islam is evil. I say there is a lot of evil connected with it. That is a problem for Muslims themselves. They have to cure the problem. We're supposed to believe Ms. Khan here, that she can cure the problems of Islam at the fringes. The problem goes to the core, and that is the countries -- you cannot ignore Saudi Arabia and Iran, and the other countries that, undoubtedly do oppress people of a different religion --
AMANPOUR: But we're talking about -- we're talking about America here.
GADIEL: We're talking about right now a very small number of people in this country. And what we are afraid of, is that as the number grows, the violence will grow, as we have seen in Holland, and as we see in Germany, and as we see in England. Do we have a reason to be afraid of Muslims right now? No, the number's not very great. But your mosques, moderate, wherever they are, have been infiltrated and have a history of being infiltrated by radicals. And you can't deny it. And you may, for all I know, not be a moderate you pretend to be, because you may be engaging in takia and be engaging in lying for the purpose of furthering your religion.
(LAUGHTER)
...
ASLAN: Well, it comes from the - an organization, a neo - not - what the E.U. refers to as the neo-Nazi organization called Stop Islamization of Europe. And that kind of institutionalized Islamophobia is precisely what your organization, Stop Islamization of America, is importing into the United States. And honestly, you're on the wrong side of history. And very soon, in a couple of decades, you will be sweeped and your ideas will be sweeped into the garbage bin of history, along with the anti-Semites of the 20th century and the anti-Catholics of the 19th century.
(APPLAUSE)
SPENCER: Here again, Reza Aslan is displacing responsibility and trying to act as if this is something that I am doing that is illegitimate, or something that I have created. When actually, you look at the writings of 20th century -- muslim brotherhood theorists like and people like Madudi in Pakistan, the founder of Jamaat-e-Islami -- he says, "Non Muslims have absolutely no right to wield the reins of power in any part of God's earth. And, if they do, it is the believer's responsibility to dislodge them from that power by any means possible."
Christian Amanpour gave everybody room to talk. The Muslims on the panel tried but failed to dispel the truths spoken by those opposed to Islam spreading in America.
If Amanpour was hoping for a kumbaya moment, she didn't get one.
I watched the videos and now have to read the transcript; the videos are much abridged, Bauer, for instance, doesn’t speak.
in the Sudan, they’ve burned over a thousand churches
and in America they’ve build over a thousand mosques.
(APPLAUSE)
Why was there an applause? Were they before an audience?
Bookmarked
I really don’t care about the majority of peaceful Muslim. I care about the fraction of a million with all the money in the world and a festering hatred of me and my religion.
Yep. The West is surrendering without even ever having engaged in the war. We could never have been conquered, we are committing suicide.
.
There’s no such thing as a moderate Muslim.
Muslims believe the Koran is the perfect word of their god.
The Koran dictates that all Muslims kill or convert until the world is ruled by Islam. They are obligated to help bring this about by the Koran.
Here’s some quotes from other FReepers that I saved.
“Most people do not recognize that what happens in a mosque is sedition. Pure and simple. Islam is not just a “religion”, it is a cult, it is it’s own government, its judicial...is in its sharia, and its military (jihadis) all rolled into one with one intent ...and that is to rule wherever they take root.
It is a invasive, systemic infection looking to take over the host once it has quantum.
This is not just a “religion”, but something that cloaks itself in those terms so it should not be given the same treatment contemplated under the first amendment. The Korans rules in Sharia are to consume whatever government there is wherever it goes.
To supplant and replace.
The sooner America learns this , the better.”
Islam is *NOT* a religion.
It is a violent, seditious, malignant self-contained, authoritarian, totalitarian, misogynistic political, cultural, judicial, and religious system fighting a bloody war for world domination and genocide of the Jews.
Mohammed was a pirate, a pedophile, a polygamist, a rapist, a murderer, a torturer, a thief, a liar, a plunderer, an adulterer, a trucebreaker, a slave trader, a slave owner, an executioner, a Jew hater, and a bloody, savage, genocidal lunatic.
His bloody death cult teaches that he was the “perfect man”, who all Mohammedans must emulate.
.
They think once Muslims have helped them destroy american, they can conquer them. They cannot.
Loud mouthed feminist’s and homos’ heads will be the first to roll.
They’ve already conquered the White House.
the left is using the freedom of religion argument to help suppress what you have posted. This is why foreign money and interests are building mosques throughout the US.
Should read ‘America’
His bloody death cult teaches that he was the “perfect man”, who all Mohammedans must emulate.
Exactly. Which, I am afraid, means that Islam is an inherently evil religion. No doubt there are many basically good people who have been drawn into this death cult, or who cannot leave it without being killed for apostasy. But Islam certainly is incapable of making anyone a better person. Unlike Judaism or Christianity or, in fact, many false but far better religions than Islam, which is pure evil disguised as monotheism.
yes, if you can, click on the sidebar at the site for the “townhall.” There are two segments, one is 17 mins, the other 5. They are abridged from the show that is fully reported in the transcript. I’m not even sure the transcript is the whole thing ,though,because there is a picture of an older caucasian male holding a mike that doesn’t match up with what I read in the transcript. As usual, the leftists either dominated the studio audience or cast aside the restrictions about displays more readily.
Yeah, in other words, as they say, the horse has left the barn.
I’m not sure when this was recorded. Unfortunate that neither Graham, Spencer or Gadiel were able to bring in the current threat in Europe to put the focus back where it belonged... namely that’s coming here and “moderate Islam”is doing nothing to prevent it, such as “Allah says to rat out your murderous fellow worshipper.”
>>>”KHAN: Well, this — this particular center will create a counter-momentum against extremism, because it will amplify the voices of moderate Muslims, which have gotten drowned out over the years by the extremists, because the extremists did not only hijack the planes, they hijacked an entire religion.”
Khan & Reza Aslan are selling what many muslims refer to as “Western or Westernized Islam”, such as this one, facilitated by Christiane Amanpour. This is for Western audience consumption.
Khan should know the history of Islam, its laws, the Sunnah, the Hadiths, and the actions of its ‘prophet’ Mohammad as Islam’s role model.
In the Middle East, there has NEVER been what some groups/individuals in the West have coined & reinforce as ‘extremist, political, fundamental, or radical Islam’.
There has ONLY always been Islam & its followers. People like Anjem Choudary are Islamic purists, not radicals.
Islam is / has always been very much about politics. Mohammad himself was a political ruler & leader. Reza Aslan actually highlights this point in this discussion. I have not yet met, heard, nor read a single Muslim scholar who categorically, and explicitly denies the POLITICAL NATURE of Islam, though those selling “Western Islam” often underplay it.
Thank you for posting this. We forget the historic clashes with Mohammedanism at our peril. The evil (at its core) is the denial of the Incarnation (God in human flesh).
See my tagline.
I have been saying for the last two years... Obama will do something to our country in 2012. He is going to try and destroy us.. He is a Muslim and he is the Trojan Horse... He is the devil, he wants to impose all the bad things the bible talked about.. 2012 I predict will go this way.. Present Obama losing the election by double digits. He is sitting in the white house knowing he is going to go down. He puts on his green muslim scarf and orders the military to launch a pre-emptive strike againsts the Russians... The military tries to stop him but in the Silos there are a few devoted Obamanites. And the rest is history...
Ok I know, great imagination... BUT WHAT IF?
If a Muslim says he believes in the Koran (Islam’s war manual), then you have to realize that he is your enemy whether you like it or not. I have a friend (American) who married a man from Algeria back in the ‘70s. He came to this country to get an Electrical Engineering degree. He helped actively in raising their three children, and was a pretty good husband. In all respects, he would not be considered a Muslim at all except by his heritage.
I think there was a time when you could say that Muslims who immigrated to the West were not a threat to anyone (except for their very bad driving skills and they’re not the only ones that fit that stereotype). Many were in fact trying to escape the extremist fundamentalists in their native countries,longing for freedom, an education, and a more prosperous life. As long as the West was willing to fight the terrorist elements in bloody battles, they were held at bay.
When the Western leaders (post-colonial times) decided to collaborate, mainly for the oil, then all bets were off. Arafat could only rise in a climate of fear from the West. The warring element of Islam will not only kill the Infidels, but they will kill literally any Muslim who is not fully compliant with Sharia. So, bottom line, the gas station owner in South Florida might well be a good guy or not. He obviously isn’t fearing for his life so far - that may be a very scary clue.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.