Posted on 10/02/2010 5:18:24 AM PDT by marktwain
Though the guns that will be holstered to dozens of people at this weekend’s Hometown Fair won’t be loaded, the debate over the right to carry them has been.
Despite initial warnings from Hometown Fair Board members and the Manhattan Beach Police Department that people with firearms at the event would be arrested, volunteers of South Bay Open Carry (SBOC) made it clear that they will not leave their guns at home, citing their Second Amendment right to bear arms.
A quarrel over guns at the event began with the fair board threatening arrests.
“They are opening themselves up to a huge lawsuit,” Harley Green, founder of SBOC, said on Monday. “My hope is that by Oct. 2, they will have done their research and uphold the law. If they do arrest, they will be hit with major civil rights lawsuits. There are volunteers with attorneys lined up that will sue if they are so much as touched for legally open carrying.”
The 38-year-old fair, held near American Martyrs Catholic Church, is put on by a private non-profit group of 20 residents. The city contributed roughly $48,000 to this year’s event, which will feature several games geared towards children and young adults, giving special rise for concern among the fair’s board members.
Jeffrey Phillips and his son visit the South Bay Open Carry booth at this summer’s Fiesta Hermosa. “He came with a gun to protect himself and his child,” said Harley Green, founder of SBOC. Photo courtesy of South Bay Open Carry
“The [fair] board is keenly focused on keeping their privately-run event safe for all,” said Mayor Mitch Ward, who is the City Council’s fair liaison. “The board recognizes that guns and ammo around children and adults for that matter in public events presents serious concerns.”
In recent weeks, volunteers of SBOC have threatened litigation against the city, the fair’s board and the nearby American Martyrs School, after fair officials said they would not allow guns at the event.
“The Open Carry threats of a lawsuit have been successful,” said Police Chief Rod Uyeda, who met with fair coordinators Monday night to help craft a new policy which will allow unloaded guns at the event. “They burdened people who have put this event on for 20 years with this fear of a lawsuit. These poor people are scared.”
State law permits people to openly carry unloaded firearms in public places, subject to inspection by authorities. Ammunition can be carried separately but must not be loaded into the gun. State law restricts open carry within 1,000 feet of schools, according to the Gun-Free School Zone Act adopted in 1995.
Hermosa resident Green, 24, founded SBOC in June — shortly after he purchased his first gun — to encourage the exercise of the Constitution’s right to bear arms.
Over the summer, Green organized a trash-pickup in Hermosa Beach, during which volunteers openly carried. Strapped volunteers also set up a booth at the recent Fiesta Hermosa street fair, educating the public on their rights.
Green met with Hermosa officials prior to the events.
“A big part of what we do is educate police departments,” he said. “There’s nothing illegal about carrying firearms in California. I like to meet ahead of time for their convenience.”
South Bay Open Carry volunteers (l-r) Robert Schuffman, Adrienne Lemon Green, Edward Jaffe, (unidentified), Gene McCarthy and Sergio J. A. Sánchez wore their guns to the recent Fiesta Hermosa. Photo courtesy of South Bay Open Carry
“[Hermosa Beach Police Chief Greg] Savelli personally came out to make sure the booth was in the free speech area,” he added. “It was very positive. People enjoyed hearing about rights they didn’t know they have.”
On Aug. 31, Green met with the MBPD officials to alert them that SBOC planned on open carrying at the Hometown Fair. Green was provided with a map of open carry restricted areas, which did not include fair grounds.
Fair officials later told Green that private security would be instructed to arrest anyone carrying a gun, since the right to bear arms is restricted to public property.
“The fair tried to say they rented the property and that it would be considered private property for the time that the fair is there,” he said.
Green contends that the property is not private during the duration of the fair, because the Hometown Fair has not paid rent to the city and is required to uphold local, state and federal laws, according to its land use agreement.
Citing a court ruling after attendees at a garlic festival were asked to remove gang colors, City Attorney Robert Wadden said the Hometown Fair rules “would not give rise to a violation of civil rights.”
When Green contacted the MBPD again, he was provided with a new map that highlighted portions of the fair restricted to open carry, due to a 1,000-foot radius surrounding American Martyrs Church and School.
Green insists that the church — which would extend the restricted radius onto fair grounds — is not an educational facility and shouldn’t have been included on the map.
“It’s a political game with the law to keep us from the fair.” Green said.
Uyeda said that Green was told the first map was merely a draft drawn in an attempt to quickly begin working with SBOC. He also said that the church is considered a part of the school since American Martyrs students use it for worship.
On Sept. 24, SBOC sent a letter to the school demanding it clarify that the church is not used for educational purposes.
“It’s outrageous and preposterous for a group like this to dictate and define what is Catholic religious practice or education,” said Tod Tamberg, media relations director for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, of which American Martyrs is a parish. “Religious formation is an intricate part of Catholic education all across the world and in Manhattan Beach. Where kids are is where education is — if in our church, then that’s educational at that time.”
On Tuesday, Uyeda sent out a statement to SBOC regarding the fair’s new policy:
“While they will continue to ask all Fair goers not to bring weapons to the Fair…they have informed us that they will not seek to make any arrests for unloaded firearms being brought into the Fair in violation of their ‘no weapons’ request.”
In a statement this week, fair board president Maggie Movius continued to request that weapons not be brought to the fair.
Uyeda said that open carriers who cross over into the portion of fair grounds that lie within 1,000 feet of American Martyrs will be subject to arrest by MBPD. Additional private security will be hired by the MBPD for the event.
“I deeply respect their rights to bear firearms as long as you don’t infringe on the rights of others or violate the law,” he said.
Uyeda also requests that no alcohol be consumed by armed individuals and that the group refrain from speaking to minors without parental consent.
SBOC volunteers will meet at Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, 321 Manhattan Beach Blvd. at 1 p.m. on Saturday before heading to the fair.
“I am not asking them to bend the law or give us any special priorities,” Green said. “We just want them to support the existing state, local and federal laws.”
It is outrageous for a religious leader to attempt to subvert Constitutional rights by twisting already heavy infringements into whatever they want them to mean. This already falls under conspiracy to deny Constitutional rights as far as I can see. The whole idea that rights can be denied because someone is merely within a thousand feet of a school is insane.
Glad to see this happening in a liberal stronghold like Manhattan Beach.
I’m really, really glad I live in AZ.
I’ve considered Wyoming or something like that. Arizona is a little too close to the illegal invaders for me.
“Arizona is a little too close to the illegal invaders for me.”
I live in the far north, pretty much in the middle of no where. My big decision is open or concealed :) And sometimes mine, my daughter’s or my husband’s.
So, how many are going to get mugged for their gun since it can be assume that the guns are unloaded? Bad law.
IMO, this kind of "in your face" demonstration does more harm than good compared to the occasional non-chalant appearance of a sidearm. In this political environment, it will only take one insane goofball to get the law changed to banning open carry entirely. Then what will they do?
Further, although they are training law-enforcement in the law (which is a good thing), from the perspective of the LEO, these groups are using the law to throw their weight around. They are thus alienating individual LEOs even further than they already are. These activists need to develop the kind of patient persistence that it takes to win in an culture like this one or they will have taken us a giant step backwards.
From what I've seen, the individual cases in which one guy is arrested for legal carry in what would appear to the average person to be reasonable circumstances and purposes do more good for this cause than this sort of public demonstration.
I guess we know where the porta-potties will be located.
Then they’ll sue under Heller.
And ten years later we may see something from it (if there still is a State of California by then).
I think you know I agree with the goal. It is the political means here that I think are counterproductive. Rely upon a court to uphold your rights while ignoring public perceptions and, in the long run, we'll all lose.
There are better means. For example, I think the best thing gun activists have done is teach women about concealed carry. The public demonstrations at ranges with augmented interest in female participation have been effective. Let's put our efforts there instead of making life difficult for the police that we hope to induct as our natural allies.
I liken your position to those who didn’t want to rock the boat back in the early 60’s when black people were trying to exercise their right to vote. Sometimes the only way to win is to get right in their faces.
Open-carry gun debate surrounds Hometown Fair
by Carley Dryden
September 29, 2010
Understand and disagree because of a substantive difference: At that time, most people voted and did not regard the exercise of the right as a threat. Most Californians do not own guns. I would hazard a guess that a majority consider gun ownership a threat to public safety. Giving the media an event to publicize where gun owners are pushing around the police with the law (however justified both in fact and principle) does not create the impression of an oppressed minority deprived of their rights.
Hence, I think yours a bad analogy.
Bad analogy or no, I’m sick of being pushed around by libs who use both the media and the courts against us. Its time to fight back using their own methods against them.
Some flatfoot arrests you in CA or WI for legal open carry you sue him personally, the Department that hired him, and whatever city, village, town, or burgh chartered said Department into bankruptcy.
USC, TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 13, § 241. Conspiracy against rights.
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
Now, if the open-carry people are arrested and held against their will does that count as “kidnap” or an attempt? If so, then the arresting officers could be sentenced to DEATH!!
>>police that we hope to induct as our natural allies.<<
LEO’s are not our natural allies when it comes to guns. Every officer on every PD must be educated as to what the US Constitution says because it is NOT discussed at the Police Academy.
Can't have the little ones learn about rights that make the libtards afraid.
Public school instruction about homosexual acts and "safe sex" practices are OK though.
I like that part just fine.
I’d also demand that a Grand Jury be convened to indict these idiot cops under 18USC242.
Agree with that too. What I disagree with is deliberately provoking the situation. If you have occasion to wear a gun, by all means do so and have the documentation with which to make the crimes committed against you willful. But organized gatherings for the purpose strike me as counterproductive for the political reasons I said.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.