Posted on 08/24/2010 10:11:30 PM PDT by ELS
Despite what the Associated Press and the politically correct say, I agree with Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf in calling the Cordoba House (oh, excuse me, Park51) the Ground Zero Mosque. It is insane to consider the former site of the Burlington Coat Factory anything but Ground Zero.
The term Ground Zero does not just denote the footprints of the late World Trade Center; scores of blocks were covered by human ash, making a large area of Manhattan a virtual graveyard. But since pictures (and video) speak more than words, here are some 9/11/01 images of the neighborhood that we are not allowed to call Ground Zero anymore.
(Excerpt) Read more at bigpeace.com ...
The guy filling in for Hannity today said that the engine block from one of the 9/11 planes hit the building. The building was vacant but suffered damage on several floors.
I think people who are against this mosque should start showing footage on TV for Americans to again see. This footage should be very graphic. Let Americans understand why we are against this mosque. The muslims had signs up for TV viewers to see that those against the mosque are haters. Let’s show them footage of the real haters/terrorist haters/terrorist murderers/Islamic Muslim murderers.
I think people who are against this mosque should start showing footage on TV for Americans to again see. This footage should be very graphic. Let Americans understand why we are against this mosque. The muslims had signs up for TV viewers to see that those against the mosque are haters. Let’s show them footage of the real haters/terrorist haters/terrorist murderers/Islamic Muslim murderers.
Not the engine, it was the landing gear and part of the fuselage.
I thought Darryl Worley was over the top when he suggested people might forget. He was right, and I was very wrong:
I hear people saying
We don’t need this war
But I say there’s some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground
We didn’t get to keep them by backing down
Now they say we don’t realize the mess we’re getting in
Before you start to preaching let me ask you this my friend
Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
Too see your homeland under fire and her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going through a living hell
And you say we shouldn’t worry about Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?
They took all the footage off my TV
They said it’s too disturbing for you and me
It’ll just breed anger, it’s what the experts say
If it was up to me I’d show it everyday
Some say this country’s just out looking for a fight
Well after 9-11 man I’d have to say that’s right
Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
Too see your homeland under fire and her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going through a living hell
And we vowed to get the ones behind Bin Laden. Have you forgotten?
I’ve been there with the soldiers who’ve gone away to war
And you can bet that they remember just what they’re fighting for
Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Yeah some went down like heroes in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
Yeah all those loved ones that we lost
And those left to carry on
Don’t you tell me not to worry about Bin Laden
Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
Too see your homeland under fire and her people blown away
Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten...
This adds perspective.
You’re welcome. Glad I could help.
Sorry, I say thatthis argument is incorrect. “Ground Zero” means exactly that - the footprint of the buildings were the two Towers stood. That is what *everybody* in this region knows you mean. Ash from the buildings covered dozens and dozens of blocks, and drifted to New Jersey. Does that make all of lower Manhattan and sections of Jersey City and Hoboken “Ground Zero”? No. Bits of stuff from the buildings drifted all the way over to my brother’s apartment in Sunnyside, Queens. Is *that* “Ground Zero”, as well?
It’s in the neighborhood. It is *not* Ground Zero. It’s a disrespect to the people that suffered through that day and died there to say it is.
If New Yorkers were outraged and didn’t want it built, I’d be completely opposed. But they actually *support* it and wish the rest of the people around the country would understand why.
The site is downtown near the former WTC. AS a person who has actually walked down that block more than once, I say with authority that it is *not* at “Ground Zero.” Here’s a map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ground%20zero%20mosque%20location&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl
Statewide polls (Sienna) indicate that voters support the right to build the mosque, but oppose building it.
Citywide polls (Quinnipiac) indicate voters also oppose building the mosque but by a smaller margin.
A landing gear, from one of the airplanes that crashed into the twin towers, crashed into the building under consideration and damaged the building. It was a DIRECT casualty on 9/11. That makes it Ground Zero, by definition.
No it doesn’t. You are just wrong. “Ground Zero”, by definition, is the large 4-block-sized space where the Twin Towers stood. You can see it on this map; it’s the space between Fulton and Liberty, on the other Trinity Place.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ground%20zero%20mosque%20location&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl
That is where you can still see the footprints of the Twin Towers. There is a Memorial there. The hoarding still line the sidewalks so passersby won’t fall in the hole.
THAT is Ground Zero. That has always been Ground Zero. If you were a New Yorker, or knew anything about the place where this occured, or had ever had it actually be a meaningful place where you’d done business, met with people, ate dinner, or just enjoyed the view from the top of.. if you had ever had those Towers be a part of your life, somone who still looked for them every time they approached New York City - you would know JUST where Ground Zero is.
Perhaps the other buildings at the 16-acre Trade Center might be arguably part of Ground Zero, as they were considered part of the Complex and were destroyed that day(4, 5, 6), but aren’t considered Ground Zero. After all, the Marriott is in the complex, and it is *still* open. It’s not Ground Zero.
Some former clothing warehouse more than 4 block lengths away, no matter what fell onto it, will never be Ground Zero. Only the Twin Towers are truly Ground Zero, because that is where the people died.
As Wikipedia has captured the commonly -accepted definition:
“In and around New York City, “Ground Zero” is generally understood to mean the site of the World Trade Center, which was destroyed in the September 11, 2001 attacks. The phrase was being applied to the World Trade Center site within hours after the towers collapsed. The adoption of this term by the mainstream North American media with reference to the September 11th attacks began as early as 7:47 p.m. (EDT) on that day, when CBS News reporter Jim Axelrod said,
“ Less than four miles behind me is where the Twin Towers stood this morning. But not tonight. Ground Zero, as it’s being described, in today’s terrorist attacks that have sent aftershocks rippling across the country.[5] ”
Rescue workers also used the phrase “The Pile”, referring to the pile of rubble that was left after the buildings collapse.”
As a number of NY/NJ/CT Freepers can tell you, I have done and experienced the things you mention. I used to work on Broadway near Wall St. and commuted through the WTC via the PATH train from New Jersey. I even went to a corporate Christmas party at Windows on the World. All of that has nothing to do with a definition of where Ground Zero is. (I was working in Manhattan, in midtown, on 9/11. I commuted to work on NJ Transit into NY Penn Station and always looked for the twin towers as I was riding in to work to get my bearings. For weeks, if not months, I couldn't believe what I saw, or didn't see. The clouds of smoke where the towers used to be were hard to bear. So, you might not want to assume what I know or don't know before ranting.)
Let's look at the definition you have provided from Wikipedia:
In and around New York City, “Ground Zero” is generally understood to mean the site of the World Trade Center, which was destroyed in the September 11, 2001 attacks.The building at 51 Park Pl. WAS destroyed in the 9/11 attacks. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Also, there is no need to exaggerate by saying "4 block lengths". Any map shows that Park Place is only two N/S blocks (which are much shorter that the E/W blocks) away from the immediate perimeter of the WTC. I have not seen any news reports that have said it is four blocks away. Do you have a citation? Had the towers fallen sideways, it would have been well within the potential quarter mile radius. Would you still define Ground Zero as the area between Vesey St., Liberty St., Church St./Trinity Pl. and West St. if the towers had not fallen straight down?
Let's look at earlier quote from Wikipedia:
The term [ground zero] has often been associated with nuclear explosions and other large bombs, but is also used in relation to earthquakes, epidemics and other disasters to mark the point of the most severe damage or destruction.51 Park Place certainly meets this definition. It was damaged beyond repair by a part or parts of one of the airplanes on September 11, 2001. Many buildings in the area were not damaged at all. They are not part of Ground Zero.
We have a difference of opinion. The definition of Ground Zero that I use is somewhat broader than the definition you use. I suggest that we agree to disagree on this point.
I agree - we have a different definition, and will probably always have one. I never considered the Burlington Cota Factory as part of “Ground Zero.”
But that raises another question: If this center was going to be built in the building *next door * toe Park51, in a building that wasn’t damaged by the events of the day, would you be okay with it? Is it purely the location of this center at the particular building they’ve purchased?
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