Posted on 07/12/2010 11:12:31 AM PDT by Niuhuru
Frankly I find it surprising anyone on FR backs this kind of false capitalism.
Dont get me wrong. It might be a wonderful concoction. But it isnt vodka.
Ok perhaps not a fair analogy, but everyone on this thread seems to think this is a victimless crime. It isn't. If he isn't paying his due, that means that someone else, somewhere, is.
“Frankly I find it surprising anyone on FR backs this kind of false capitalism. “
So the difference between a “real” capitalist and a “false” capitalist is paying taxes and insurance and licensing fees?
He was actually the epitome of a “real” capitalist.....he provided a service to willing buyers - with no interference from anyone - until now.
Because he can make it cheaper by undercutting the “legal” suppliers.
Now let me tell the story, I can tell it all
About the British boy who ran illegal alcohol
His daddy made the vodka, son, he drove the load
When his engine roared,
They called the highway thunder road.
Sometimes into Chatsworth, sometimes Yorkshire town
The revenoors chased him but they couldn’t run him
Down
Each time they thought they had him,
His engine would explode
He’d go by like they were standin’ still on thunder
Road.
[Chorus]
And there was thunder, thunder over thunder road
Thunder was his engine, and white lightning was his
Load
There was moonshine, moonshine to quench the devil’s thirst
The law they swore they’d get him, but the devil got
Him first.
On the first of april, Twenty ten or so
A Queen’s man sent word he’d better make his run no
More
He said two hundred agents were coverin’ the shires
Whichever road he tried to take, they’d get him sure as
Fate.
Son, his daddy told him, make this run your last
Your tank is filled with hundred-proof,
You’re all tuned up and gassed
Now, don’t take any chances, if you can’t get through
I’d rather have you back again than all that mountain
Dew
[Chorus]
Roarin’ out of London, revving’ up his mill
He shot the gap at Liverpools ,
And screamed by Edinburg
With Q-men on his taillights, roadblocks up ahead
The British boy took roads that even angels feared
To tread.
Blazing’ right through Blyburg, out on London pike
Then right outside of Wimbledon, there they made the fatal
Strike
He left the road at ninety, that’s all there is to say
The devil got the moonshine and the mountain boy
That day
[Chorus]
Yes that is true.
“Because he can make it cheaper by undercutting the “legal” suppliers.”
Yeah...that and avoiding the taxes...which was my point about the silly argument that legalizing drugs would put an end to the drug wars...runners and crime. Wait...isn’t that why we want to legalize drugs, to do away with crime and gangs?
I didn't even ask a question.
It LOOKS like real vodka with a fake label.
Maybe. I don't know the difference between vodka and water, just by looking.
But how do you know what it is?
I don't, and never claimed I did.
There has to be a definition of what makes vodka, vodka.
OK, I'll go along with that.
And without some independent atributation, it could be anything.
I don't know what "atributation" is, perhaps you mean "attribution".
In any case, it is or it isn't vodka, whether you or I or the state recognizes it as such or not.
Don't get me wrong. It might be a wonderful concoction. But it isnt vodka.
Why do you say that? It might be fake Smirnoff, but it could still be genuine vodka. I can make beer in my basement. It's not Heineken, but it's real beer.
My point was simply that the article doesn't make it clear whether it's fake vodka (water, for example), or fake branding (real vodka with counterfeit labels).
No, the difference is that this guy is a crook, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and a con man. If you think that is the epitome of what makes capitalism great, then you need to rethink some things through.
And maybe not even by tasting. The point is that unless you have some kind of chemical expertise you will be unable to tell exactly what this stuff actually is. In any case, if the label is falsified, what you are buying is not what you think it is. That is misrepresentation, and as he is taking money for it, that is fraud.
But how do you know what it is? I don't, and never claimed I did.
It was a rhetorical question.
It probably would severely reduce the runners and the crime (it wouldnt completely do away with it). However, it would also remove two major disadvantages to taking drugs, namely that its expensive and you get put in prison for it. Therefore, the number of addicts would shoot up (no pun intended), which wouldnt be a very good thing for the people involved or society in general.
I'm not arguing that it's not fraud. My point is simply whether it's "fake vodka" or not. The article doesn't do much to clarify that.
If I buy Miller Lite beer and put it into Heineken bottles and sell it, it's fraud, but it's not "fake beer".
“No, the difference is that this guy is a crook, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and a con man. If you think that is the epitome of what makes capitalism great, then you need to rethink some things through.”
I said he was the “epitome of capitalism” - non-interference from government.
You recast my comment as something different. Sort of a small-time con and fraud.... So I’m thinking you are asking if I’ll let you in on my distilling operation, and the answer is NO.
But I concur with your main point. It is kinda sloppy reporting.
My point it that this may very well be "pure" capitalism, but by the same argument, so is importing heroin and selling it on a street corner. In other words if this is what is the "epitome of capitalism", no thank you. I'm all for limiting the power of government, but I do recognise that there does actually need to be A government.
I wasn't trying to recast your comment. I was just pointing out that this behaviour, far from being the epitome of capitalism, actually destroys capitalism. Partly because it brings it into disrepute, but mostly because although it builds up one business, it acts to destroy others.
“I was just pointing out that this behaviour, far from being the epitome of capitalism, actually destroys capitalism. “
I understand what you are saying - but I think your conclusion is wrong. Government destroys capitalism and competition through taxes and favoritism. This guys crime was depriving government of revenue, which in the grand scheme favors capitalism.
Do you really feel sorry for the bar that is regulated by local government hacks who limit licenses of potential competitors - in exchange for their paying outrageous taxes on a product that people want?
I don’t. I don’t feel sorry for this guy getting caught either - but I don’t think a revenue crime is one that should be looked at as hard as an actual crime.
And yes, drug dealing IS pure capitalism - but the product is illegal. In this case the product was completely legal.
A lot of people here also don’t seem to recognise the basic unfairness of ordinary working people who have to pay their fair share of taxes straight out of their salaries/wages, whilst these so-called ‘entrepreneurs’ (fraudsters) are by not paying taxes, forcing workers to shoulder more of the burden to make up the shortfall.
I am as much for a low-taxation economy as anyone else here, but tax like death as they say, is inevitable. Everyone has to face it. I have absolutely no sympathy for tax dodgers. Those caught ought to spend some hard time in prison as an example to others for cheating not just HM Revenue and Customs, but also ordinary taxpayers who have to carry more of the burden they refuse to help shoulder...
A revenue crime is an actual crime. The fact that it is perceived as not being as serious as a physical crime like assault or burglary does not change its actual status. It is still illegal and needs to be punished. I agree it should not be treated as harshly as an actual physical crime, although if you think about it, it may actually do more damage.
Government can destroy entire sectors of the economy, take health insurance as one example.
Taxes and regulation are great destroyers of productive enterprise. Tobacco and alcohol are only visible examples.
“A revenue crime is an actual crime.”
Ok, lets go north to Canada. They have an onerous sales tax in every province. Often (very often) for services there are two prices - one for “cash” and the other “official” price.
Excessive taxation makes a criminal out of everyone who tries to keep the fruits of their labors. This is also a convenience for totalitarians out there (Obama, through Holders DO”J”) because they can select whom to prosecute through the lens of politics or any other subjective term.
The taxes on alcohol and tobacco are excessive. They are taxed because they can be, not because they should be.
I don’t smoke and I don’t drink much to matter, but I think it is everyones duty to get the most value for their hard work.
Back to the Great White North.....15 years ago or so, they instituted extremely high and ridiculous taxes on tobacco - which caused revenues to drop and turned every smoker into a tax evader. Rather than prosecuting the entire population, they lowered the tax.
That’s why what this guy did is a good thing.....he is the leading wave of what can and should happen everywhere - reject excessive taxation - buy where you get the best value for your dollar.
Your position that statism is benign is an easy argument to make. There are laws to support it. But our founding fathers broke the law on taxation too when it became unreasonable. Given the opportunity, I will too. So should you, and so should every American.
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