Posted on 05/14/2010 9:45:04 AM PDT by Shimmer1
Most people know very little about Scientology aside from the fact that Tom Cruise, John Travolta and other celebrities are a part of it, and that it's had its fair share of controversy over the years. A new book is looking to pull back the curtain on the mysterious religion founded by L. Ron Hubbard, and the author certainly knows her stuff. Amy Scobee is a former Scientologist who was in the church for more than two decades, and worked in the all-important Celebrity Centers portion of the organization. In her just-released book, 'Scientology: Abuse at the Top,' Scobee details all of the troubling things she saw that made her flee what she once called her trusted religion, but now refers to as a "dangerous cult." Scobee spoke exclusively to PopEater over e-mail about her shocking book, her time with Tom Cruise and other Scientology bigwigs, and the (her words) brainwashing, systematic violence and slave labor camps she saw during her 27 years there.
(Excerpt) Read more at popeater.com ...
They have an amazing ability to obtain information, if they choose to. That got them into a bit of trouble in the late 70's when the federal government discovered that they had inserted agents into the IRS, FBI and other places to obtain info on government investigations of Scientology and to alter their files.
There's also an interesting series Scientology: The Truth Rundown
My hatred is for evil. L. Ron Hubbard’s technology (”Tech”) is evil - it was borne in evil, it’s purpose is evil, its practice is evil.
Scientology consists primarily of Hubbards Tech. Unless you can thoroughly denounce this, you are furthering evil.
Yes, you CAN throw this baby out with the bathwater.
There is nothing useful that can be gained from Scientology tech that that is not available from non-evil sources elsewhere. Dump the whole Tech lot. The more you tout any “value” in Hubbard’s tech, the more you support Scientology.
Dump it all, denounce it all, walk away from it ALL.
And, please, do not advertise yourself as the get out of Scientology expert on FR while you still believe there is some good in it.
I do have a standing open offer to answer any FReeper's questions about Scientology, either in open forum, or via FReepmail.
True, some of the questions are about getting out of scn, or getting a loved one out, true, I will give the best advice I can to help them, but that is not the end-all and be-all of that thread.
The purpose of that thread is to aid people in knowing about scientology, with the hope that with sufficient knowledge they will avoid it.
If I lie about the few good parts, it would destroy my credibility, as any idiot can see there are some benefits (every trap needs bait!).
It would be the equivalent of trying to convince a mouse that cheese is bad. It violates the mouse's own experience, he knows cheese is good, and anyone saying cheese is bad is probably lying about the trap, too.
It is my experience that one of the things that sticks people to scientology is mystery, the fear that if the leave they will never know what is on the upper levels. I provide information to people who 'gots to know'. </Dirty Harry reference> When it clicks they can (and almost always do) leave.
You see, I have actual success in bailing out scientologists.
How many people have you succeeded in getting anyone out of scientology? With your honest, warm, fuzzy and empathetic approach you must have freed thousands by now.
If it's all the same to you, I'll stick with something that works, even if you can't fathom why or how.
You claim not to advertise yourself and then you advertise yourself.
There’s no way to verify your claims of getting people out. If they are “out” as you are, they’re not really out. E-peens are not impressive.
In Scientology, the cheese IS bad. The method to gain is to use others for your own power. That’s bad cheese, the gain is bad.
It’s a bad method to transform a thief by agreeing that all the stuff he stole is really good stuff. It’s not - it’s a weight that’s killing him spiritually. Wanting the stuff so badly, thinking the stuff would be “good” is false. Reinforcing his Jones is not something to brag about.
Did you see Scientology as part of your spiritual growth? If so, what takes its place now? Did you see Scientology as a way to gain personal power? If so, what replaces that now? Was Scientology a way for you to be of help others? If so, what replaces that now?
How about a little word clearing here.
What's an E-peen?
I really rarely describe anyone’s religion as evil. Or come down hard against someone else’s beliefs. Only the very few that I believe are truly evil and of great harm in all their aspects, from root to petal.
Perhaps a better way to put it:
Scientology preys on and appeals to a harmful side of human nature, it appeals to give power to this side. It’s closest cousin is Satanism. The ties between Hubbard and Aleister Crowley are well documented.
The appeal may be “self improvement,” but it’s for personal power over others. The appeal may be to “help” the planet, but underneath is the real appeal of personal power over others. And on and on. Using others, against their will, for your personal gain. It’s the true appeal of both Satanism and Scientology. Just watch Tom Cruise for a perfect example.
If you reinforce the “good” of accomplishing success according to Hubbard, you feed this evil nature. All the good “cheese” is to a bad end.
If what appealed to someone about Scientology still appeals to them, they’re not free. If you reinforce this desire in others, how tasty the cheese is, even if they leave Scientology, their root cause for joining remains. And they, and others, will suffer so long as it remains.
I’m leaving for the weekend, so won’t be able to post or reply. I’ll check back when I return.
Did you see Scientology as part of your spiritual growth?
Yes. Still do as it is now part of my journey. I hesitate to say that because I know you are going to leap on it, but I mean no more than it is a stepping stone to where I am now, as being an abused child of a drunken parent would be part of an adult's experience, nothing more.
If so, what takes its place now?
If you had bothered to read any of the link I posted way at the beginning of this thread you'd know that I am in that uncomfortable place between belief systems.
I note that you seem to be unwilling to disclose anything about your own belief system, If I may ask, what is your faith?
Did you see Scientology as a way to gain personal power?
No. I saw it as a way to be a better engineer. (Do I look like a frickin' people person???)
If so, what replaces that now?
A long career in engineering, followed by turning 50 and becoming unemployable...
Was Scientology a way for you to be of help others?
Yes.
If so, what replaces that now?
FR.
Somehow I doubt that.
Or come down hard against someone else’s beliefs.
and that.
Scientology preys on and appeals to a harmful side of human nature,
It appeals to that side of human nature that strives to know more and be better. This has been the natural enemy of the Church since time immemorial.
It’s closest cousin is Satanism.
Probably. After all Satan's big crime was wanting to be as good as God.
The ties between Hubbard and Aleister Crowley are well documented.
Yup. The OT (Operating Thetan) levels, unlike everything else in scn dont start with a zero level, I guess the old guy thought OT0 looked too much like OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis, Crowley's group)
The appeal may be “self improvement,” but it’s for personal power over others.
Not for all in the church, I knew many members who were sincere in their quest for personal best.
The appeal may be to “help” the planet, but underneath is the real appeal of personal power over others.
In way too many cases, yes.
If you reinforce the “good” of accomplishing success according to Hubbard, you feed this evil nature. All the good “cheese” is to a bad end.
If I deny the workable parts, I weaken both my own personal integrity and my warning message.
If what appealed to someone about Scientology still appeals to them, they’re not free. If you reinforce this desire in others, how tasty the cheese is,
That model works for alcoholism, but most people who partied through college can still enjoy an occasional beer with ther buds without wanting to go back to their party days.
even if they leave Scientology, their root cause for joining remains.
I still desire to make the world a better place, this is bad because?
As irritating and annoying as I find you, I'm looking forward to it.
I have out-of-town guests next week so my ability to FReep will be limited.
It appeals to that side of human nature that strives to know more and be better.
How in the world you can extol the virtues of a religion seeped in satanism and black magic in order to "be better" is perplexing. Power at the expense of others, using others for selfish gain - only in an upside down value system is this considered "being better."
This has been the natural enemy of the Church...
Most certainly, Christianity, for one example, opposes this value system. One need not belong to any church, only have decent human values, to oppose this value system.
I knew many members who were sincere in their quest for personal best.
Everyone wants to be their best, but this value is in service to higher values, not at the expense of them. And for those in Scientology seeking to 'be their best' at what point should they discover this is not a Dale Carnegie course? The second day?
If I deny the workable parts, I weaken both my own personal integrity and my warning message.
Like using a dictionary can improve your vocabulary? Good grief, do you have a long list of "good benefits" from following and promoting evil? Do they dress well, have nicely appointed offices too?
I still desire to make the world a better place, this is bad because?
How long did it take you to discover Scientology wasn't social services? And how long did you stay a member "To make the world a better place"?
If you want to make the world a better place, truly better, not increase your power over others, using this as an excuse to yourself, would only be credible for the absolute clueless.
You agree this is based in the same poison as satanism, you must know it bears no resemblance to any sane self help or charitable organization. It's literally painfully obvious within a short time frame in Scientology. Those that stay are hooked following the same goals as Hubbard and Crowley - far far from "being your best" and "helping the world".
To claim otherwise must rely on ignorance of those you claim it to, or - perhaps in addition to - self denial.
You admit the evil foundation of the cult yet you, amazingly, serve as its apologist. There is no sane apologist argument possible, not for any aspect of it.
Is this really your understanding of Satan? Or are you just trying to slam Christianity and make a joke?
Yet you feel compelled to try to reason with me.
Why is that?
I've read Genesis. Lucifer wanted to be God. Unfortunately for him there is only one job opening for God, and it's filled!
I don’t think you’re crazy. And I should be careful to use the context of your views rather than you as a person. My apologies where I stray from this.
We are having an argument in the larger sense. One uses reason to support their positions - and to counter the opposing argument.
I asked questions that I believe show the weakness of your position, the absurdity and inconsistency of it.
As for my motivation, I strongly oppose those organizations that purposefully do harm to others. And I oppose those that support or defend them, in this case.
I think that's somewhat inaccurate. And in Christian theology, it is not wanting to be like God that is missing the mark. Satan's intent, in this view, is far from seeking to be like God, or to help others be like God. No, just the opposite.
Is it your view that Scientology as contrasted with Christianity wants to help people be "better" and more wise? That Scientology's purpose is to help people become God?
IF so, is this one of the good things of Scientology in your view - and to it's credit over other religions which, in your view, do not wish humans to be "better" and to know more about their true nature?
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