Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Footage of Polish air crash emerges claiming to show Russian-speaking men shooting survivors
Daily Mail U.K. ^ | May 13, 2010 | Will Stewart

Posted on 05/13/2010 3:46:01 PM PDT by theanchoragedailyruse

Russia was last night facing claims of a cover up over the Polish presidential air crash after a series of shocking allegations emerged concerning the doomed Tupolev-154 in which head of state Lech Kaczynski died. Most extraordinary was the emergence of confusing footage which claimed to show the shooting of survivors by armed Russian-speaking men minutes after the crash.

The video, posted on the internet in recent days, has fuelled conspiracy theories suggesting that the crash was not an accident.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: kaczynski; planecrash; poland; smolensk
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-79 last
To: theanchoragedailyruse
The Poles have verified the authenticity...

Not having seen the video or looked into this very much, I really had no idea one way or the other. I was just trying to think as they might in a situation like this: plant a false clue that can then be later discredited.

61 posted on 05/13/2010 5:23:54 PM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

If there was an easier way to kill him, without a conspiracy. let me know.

Otherwise, blaming pilot error and bad weather the cause of the accident seems a no-brainer.

However, two things happened.

One, this video was released via the internet and the other was the leaked voice recording on the internet, that shows the pilot giving his readback (that indicates that Russian ATC gave him a visibility of 8km and haze with a baro of 744mm Hg).

Russia has nothing to disprove these facts or prove the pilot errored in his understanding.

Nothing...Other than it was a hoax and parts of the black box were damaged.


62 posted on 05/13/2010 5:25:07 PM PDT by theanchoragedailyruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: vigilante2

It does prove there were shots fired. The question is why?

And the videographer could shed light on that question.

With this video and in today’s media frenzy, this guy would have been either publicly humiliated or lauded.

But no one in the media has spoken to him, let alone the Polish authorities and that is a problem.


63 posted on 05/13/2010 5:28:07 PM PDT by theanchoragedailyruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: ETL

Understand — This video and the videographer have some answers to questions.

The Russians have done their damndest to dispute this video by calling it a hoax.

On face value without drawing any conclusions, this video raises alot of questions and the Russians don’t like that.


64 posted on 05/13/2010 5:31:59 PM PDT by theanchoragedailyruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: theanchoragedailyruse; vigilante2
184 people survived when flight 232 crashed in Sioux City.


65 posted on 05/13/2010 5:32:46 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: buzzer

Visibility was 7km.


66 posted on 05/13/2010 5:34:39 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: theanchoragedailyruse
Understand — This video and the videographer have some answers to questions.

Thanks. I'll take a look.

67 posted on 05/13/2010 5:36:03 PM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: theanchoragedailyruse

I believe the police were firing shots to scare off the witnesses. They didn’t want people rummaging through the wreckage and that’s understandable. If it happened in the US though the police wouldn’t be firing shots but they would be keeping the bystanders away. This is Russia though

I thought the guy who took the video was murdered, or that’s the story I heard


68 posted on 05/13/2010 5:44:10 PM PDT by vigilante2 (2373)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Spunky
Were not some of the bodies returned to Poland? Wouldn’t they have been able to tell if they were shot?

On the ones that were returned, yes, they could tell. But you still have the ones that were not returned.

69 posted on 05/13/2010 6:09:14 PM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Liberal Logic: Mandatory health insurance is constitutional - enforcing immigration law is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

If the plane comes down on it’s belly there’s a better chance for survivors but in this crash the plane lost one of it’s wings so it probably flipped and went nose first


70 posted on 05/13/2010 6:27:24 PM PDT by vigilante2 (2374)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: vigilante2

I would say that could very well be.

But there are voices in Polish and that could be either Polish press or ????

The Polish press that were there waiting for the president’s plane to arrive have not spoken about this video nor hearing gunshots.

And the Russians didn’t secure the site for the entire investigation. That is one issue that has Poles angry.

It was found that people were going through the crash site and finding passports and other items.

And as you say this is Russia we are talking about.


71 posted on 05/13/2010 7:19:49 PM PDT by theanchoragedailyruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: theanchoragedailyruse
If there was an easier way to kill him, without a conspiracy. let me know.

You mean you can't think of an easier way to kill someone than shooting a President's plane out of the sky as they make a publicized visit to Russia. You can't be serious.

72 posted on 05/13/2010 7:27:47 PM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

“You mean you can’t think of an easier way to kill someone than shooting a President’s plane out of the sky as they make a publicized visit to Russia. You can’t be serious. “

You should be made aware that there was more than just the president on that plane, and it is quite possible the concentration of senior officials was part of the motivation for the event in the first place. There is no way to take out so many top officials in the pole govt individually without some PR problems. Here, the main issue is the initial information control after the crash, which russia handled well. Most of what russia reported, which created a strong impression of total polish fault/multiple landing attempts/bad weather, has been directly contradicted by the black boxes, as I understand it. This was the first landing attempt, and the plane was using exact landing info given by ATC (I don’t speak polish (do you?) but this is what is transcripted.)

BUT, we are over a month down the line. Initial spin control is everything - surely you know this, having had a chance to observe our own government and media do it time and time again. Russia fully expects the eastern european governments to believe they did this, and in fact that is a very valuable object lesson in their view ‘ look what we did, and no one is going to do anything to us.’ and they are correct. You do realize what a chilling message is sent by the perception that russia has assassinated so much of the polish leadership, and gotten away with it? The synchronicity of the katya massacre anniversary simply elevates this from brutal and ruthless to brilliantly ruthless.

That said, I believe the cell video was unexpected. Unless someone links a detailed audio analysis of the gunshots, a person can speculate whatever they like as to their origin (if there was a sonic crack (e.g. they came from a barrel), most people would not expect to be from chambered rounds cooking off, in such nice timely fashion).


73 posted on 05/13/2010 10:30:02 PM PDT by WoofDog123
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: WoofDog123

no motive. no rationale for this method of killing people. no evidence. Just like the 9/11 wackos some people will just believe what they want to believe.


74 posted on 05/14/2010 4:39:49 AM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: theanchoragedailyruse
It was found that people were going through the crash site and finding passports and other items.

That's the point I was trying to make on a previous post. The Russian didn't want people rummaging through the wreckage. Keeping in mind this was a Presidential plane crash it's understandable they wanted to secure the site.

If an international flight crashed in the US, the bodies are not supposed to be moved until they are viewed by somebody from the FAA. We're not sure how it works in Russia but we do know they kept the media and cameras away.

This aircraft had a minimum airspeed of 130 mph when it hit those trees, slammed into the ground and burst into flames. If you have ever witnessed a crash like this in person, the magnitude of it is overwhelming.

I'm quite certain the man running from the wreckage wasn't a passenger on that plane unless he was wearing a parachute and bailed out on the way down. It is possible that some passengers were still alive and calling for help momentarily after the crash , like the person waiving his hand but then died of his injuries or fire shortly thereafter.

Until the Russians produce any bodies with gunshot wounds in them or somebody else produces more damaging evidence, I feel comfortable dismissing this video for lack of any convincing evidence.


75 posted on 05/14/2010 6:37:28 PM PDT by vigilante2 (2377)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: vigilante2; All

There are two thoughts here ..

As I posted on the orginal video .. There were three, but only two are left...

First thought is warning shots..... which is the most likely scenario.

And the second..

Survior being shot.

And this is wear the vidogprapher can offer clarity.

The translations are muddled at best and some of it could be true or may not be true. The videographer would shed light on that.

You may feel comforatble dismissing the video, but there is one thing that seems to keep the Russians from letting the person who took the video, go public.

And that should make you uncomfortable in your own heart on dismissing the video.

I have a problem with the Russians keeping that info from the public and the Polish government.

The person who took the video, given another situation would be in front of the media.

And since this is Russia, we see nothing has really changed in Russia.

As for the security, I believe that the Russians did a quick sweep to gather important data and the bodies.

The sweep was sloppy and does not rise to the level of invesigations that would go into this type of mishap.

Polish journalists found the radio compass of the aircraft in the unsecured site.

This tells me the Russians were not that concerned in getting at the reason for the mishap, it tells me that they already knew.

They were really interested at getting other things like computers and personal effects that have security issues.

As far as crashes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_yB3mKdUg here is one that burst into flames and tell me what you see shortly afterwards?

How many people do you see walking away from the plane crash?

Like I said, I don’t dismiss anything.


76 posted on 05/14/2010 9:34:57 PM PDT by theanchoragedailyruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

7 km ? Sources ? I’ve got some sources in the european / polish media all said the pilot had already 3 failed landing attempts due the bad weather and the aircraft crashed on the fourth.


77 posted on 05/16/2010 5:59:31 AM PDT by buzzer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Dallas59
Thanks for posting that.

Obviously, the Russians were shooting people in cold blood. / s

Maybe, some small arms got blown off from the heat of the jet crashing???

That would be my first guess

78 posted on 05/16/2010 6:47:56 AM PDT by Popman (Balsa wood: Obama Presidential timber)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: buzzer

Sources for the 7km? There have been numerous stories posted here with that information.


79 posted on 05/16/2010 12:31:23 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-79 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson