New light shed on Kent State killings--Shots fired at Guard, declassified files indicate

The Washington Times ^ | May 4, 2010 | James Rosen

[the_Watchman]

Precisely!! That’s what instigators do. That’s why your comments about no student being shot with a gun in their hands is not relevant. All it takes is someone on the periphery setting a spark to the tender.

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

All other facts aside, it was my opinion then and now that the Guardsmen were poorly trained and led. Riots had been going on for the previous few years and from what I saw there was a command failure.

I agree. Many of my friends served in the National Guard during the 1960's. Their attitude was they were there to disobey and screw-up. It was a different National Guard than today's.

I served my time as active duty. We trained on riot control. We drilled using various formations with fixed bayonets. We were taught there were seven levels of escalation which would warrant increasing the use of force. The seventh level was to shoot live rounds. We were under the impression that such an order was very unlikely.

I'm convinced if active duty soldiers were deployed at Kent, the shootings would not have happened.

[tang-soo]

Tracks well with this story posted on FR 4 years ago. Kent State, the True Story - Alan Stang 1974 By the way, Bernie Dohrn (Billy's wifey) is mentioned in the story as part of the S.D.S.

Here's a teaser ...

At a meeting in Williams Hall on April 28, 1969, revolutionary Communist Bernardine Dohrn said that people fighting "oppression" would have to carry weapons for "self defense." On May sixth, at another campus rally, Joyce Cecora called for armed rebellion: "They used guns at Cornell and they got what they wanted. It will come to that here!" And at still another rally on campus on May twenty-second, S.D.S. member Rick Skirvin said this: "We'll start blowing up buildings, we'll start buying guns, we'll do anything to bring this motherf***er down."

Michener quotes a student named Ken Tennant as follows: "With me it goes back to the music festival they held at Fred Fuller Park in September, 1969. Four Weathermen came down from Chicago, with insignia on their bib overalls. They were selling their organization newspaper, and I said, 'I'll buy a copy if you'll tell me what your outfit stands for.' They said, 'We're going to destroy this corrupt American society and build a better.' I asked how, and they explained, 'We've decided to close down schools all over the nation. We're going to start in Chicago. But we have our eye on Kent State, too. It could be ripe.' "

[lonestar]

That’s quite a leap!

[WHBates]

Nice fairy tale you have got there, did you think Vietnam happened in a vacuum? If it wasn't Vietnam it would have been somewhere else, it was badly managed for sure but it would have happened in any event the USSR was pushing on all fronts.

[calex59]

Would you wait until you were wounded to fire back? Of course you wouldn't. The whole purpose of firing was to NOT wound any guardsmen, if there were wounded guardsmen then the whole thing would have fallen apart. As it was the students were throwing chunks of cement and had already wounded policemen with rocks and such and were driving the guard back up the hill because they were not allowed to fire.

They did have permission to fire back if fired upon and they did. You can believe what you want, I don't know how old you are but I lived through those times and I can tell you it was a planned riot with the purpose of making the military look bad and play into the "get us out of Nam" BS meme.

[LucyJo]

No, because their intended purpose was served.

[meyer]

Jeff Cooper firearms rule number four.

Yep. :)

[advance_copy]

Richard Nixon won re-election in 1972 by a landslide.

[DesertRhino]

horsefeathers,, they wanted a violent revolution where only THEY got to be violent. The snots were asking for it, begging for it, for years.

A LOT of violence and bombings happened on their side first. I think it’s funny how AMAZED they were when the other side fought back.

[jazusamo]

I also had a conversation with Jane Fonda at Kent State while she was sitting on the open toilet of a coed restroom but that’s a story for another day.

You should have shoved her down it! And I'm serious.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

I lived here in Ohio then, my first 16 years in Ohio. I have been back here for 10 years. Then a co-worker friend who was in the Ohio National Guard told me about things that were not made public at the time - for instance, Guardsmen ‘kneecapped’ with bats or pipe wrenches and other things not published.

I heard it all that day, everything that was on the news. We knew the whole thing was orchestrated by other than ‘students’. And btw, to this day Kent has remained a leftist stronghold.

[Myrddin]

I recall a diagram in evidence that traced the trajectories.

That is still speculation without recovered bullets and confirming ballistics. Given the released information that other shooters were present, you don't know whose bullets actually hit the students.

[PA Engineer]

The Guard fired over the heads of the anarchists charging them.

The casualties were on high ground opposite the Guard position.

Correct. My cousin was one of the ones killed. She was heading to her next class and was not part of the protest or movement. She was killed by a stray guardsman round.

[FReepaholic]

...For a matter of fact I have on two occasions...

I knew it!

:-)

[nolongerademocrat]

Not a fairy tale. Just saying how different things would have been if different decisions had been made. One follows the other Viet Nam - Jane Fonda - SDS - William Ayers - WeatherUnderground - Code Pink - Obama. All these things are tied together. No Viet Nam or even if it had been delayed a few years - we might not have had the same group of people traveling back and forth to North Viet Name, Cuba and Soviet Union. Even three years later and Boudin might not have been so gung-ho about the Soviets... Not a fairy tale, just considering the possibilities and how we take actions and don’t realize how it can change everything.

[JouleZ]

“Riots had been going on for the previous few years and from what I saw there was a command failure.”

_________________________________________________________

My DH, just back from Nam was flown to DC during those riots in the circle but they weren’t allowed to have ammo.

[DesertRhino]

your tea party analogy might make sense if the tea party wasn’t gradmothers, normal people, and children,,,,with no record of violence, bombings, arson, and murder, calling for the violent overthrow of the government. Silly silly analogy.

[nkycincinnatikid]

The American Vietnam mistake began by having our, by revolution, free and independent ex-colonial nation, save Europes colonialists time and again.
Thereupon we were morally forced to attempt to save their rotten systems for noble reasons, and embraced defeat.

[nolongerademocrat]

Okay, let me put it another way, if William Ayers had never been born, Obama wouldn’t be President right now - does that work for you?